Defective Guardrails

#1
Appalachiamuck

Appalachiamuck

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#1
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, or if it has been discussed. I searched but didn't find anything on it.

Trinity Industries was recently hit with a $175 million verdict for giving false information to the governement about the highway guardrails it manufactures, but the case is not over.

They are running more safety tests now.

I'm going to try to provide links in the correct timeline.

FAILING HEADS It Could Be One of Your Children

20/20 Story
Deadly Impact: Guardrail Investigation Video - ABC News

Trinity Industries Whistleblower Awarded $175 Million in Guardrail Suit - WSJ

Litigation continues in highway guardrail case - Southeast Texas RecordSoutheast Texas Record

Critical Tests to Begin on Highway Guardrail Banned in Most States
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/1...guardrail-banned-in-most-states.html?referrer

Whistleblower says guardrails in Tennessee could be fatal

Metro to remove potentially dangerous guardrails - WSMV Channel 4

Crews begin removing potentially dangerous guardrails - WSMV Channel 4

Knox County has dozens of possibly fatal guardrail devices

Knoxville has no plans to replace possibly fatal guardrail devices

I could go on posting stories from all over the country, but thought these would be relevant to most on this board. I've personally seen thousands of photos from accidents where guardrails impales vehicles, maiming or killing the passengers.

Man now double amputee after crashing into guardrail | wpri.com

Here is a photo of how the guardrail end terminal should work.

10288762_638038409627310_3052611688873639160_n.jpg


Here is a photo of what Trinity Industry ET-Plus guardrail end terminals are doing.

4c8b0a42c3bad.image.jpg
 
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#2
#2
There are way bigger fish to fry and things for the average American to be concerned about.
 
#6
#6
Appalachiamuck said:
I shared to inform people, not to argue how important this issue is compared to others in our country.
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Thanks for bringing it into the public eye on here. Although it might have gotten a bit more publicity in the Pub.
 
#7
#7
SDV said:
You'd feel different if it happened to a family member
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You know, I thought about that as I posted that. But in the overall scheme of things, a car accident is a violent ordeal. If it isn't the guardrails, it would be some other variable that could cause a fatality. A lot of bad things can happen when you are traveling on a highway. Faulty or defective guardrails are not high on my list because there are plenty of places where there are no guardrails. At least with a faulty guardrail, you do have some sort of protection. I would rather have some protection than none.
 
#8
#8
Rasputin_Vol said:
You know, I thought about that as I posted that. But in the overall scheme of things, a car accident is a violent ordeal. If it isn't the guardrails, it would be some other variable that could cause a fatality. A lot of bad things can happen when you are traveling on a highway. Faulty or defective guardrails are not high on my list because there are plenty of places where there are no guardrails. At least with a faulty guardrail, you do have some sort of protection. I would rather have some protection than none.
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You're missing the point (again)

The company was under contract to build them a specific way and to do certain things in an accident situation. Said company didn't build them to specification and knew about it.

And they took the government, whether State or Federal, for how much in contract money? Think about how many of those you see while driving down the highway.
 
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#9
#9
Rasputin_Vol said:
You know, I thought about that as I posted that. But in the overall scheme of things, a car accident is a violent ordeal. If it isn't the guardrails, it would be some other variable that could cause a fatality. A lot of bad things can happen when you are traveling on a highway. Faulty or defective guardrails are not high on my list because there are plenty of places where there are no guardrails. At least with a faulty guardrail, you do have some sort of protection. I would rather have some protection than none.
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The purpose of a guardrail is to protect people in cars. When a manufacturer makes changes to the design of their product that leads to increased injuries and fatalities then it needs to be addressed, period. Trinity did not notify the federal or state governments of the changes they made. So now you're looking at fraud. We're not just talking about a few areas around the country. We're looking at a leader in the guardrail manufacturing industry, a multi billion dollar company, who has their ET-Plus guardrail end terminals installed all over the country and other parts of the world.

Yes, there are other more likely dangers on the road. You say "I would rather have some protection than none." I'd rather have the correct/safer protection than faulty protection.
 
#10
#10
Just another example of why we don't need government regulation.

It's going to ruin this poor company.
 
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#11
#11
Appalachiamuck said:
The purpose of a guardrail is to protect people in cars. When a manufacturer makes changes to the design of their product that leads to increased injuries and fatalities then it needs to be addressed, period. Trinity did not notify the federal or state governments of the changes they made. So now you're looking at fraud. We're not just talking about a few areas around the country. We're looking at a leader in the guardrail manufacturing industry, a multi billion dollar company, who has their ET-Plus guardrail end terminals installed all over the country and other parts of the world.

Yes, there are other more likely dangers on the road. You say "I would rather have some protection than none." I'd rather have the correct/safer protection than faulty protection.
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Look at the picture you posted to open the thread...

4c8b0a42c3bad.image.jpg


Now lets use some common sense here. Was the contributing factor for this to happen a faulty guardrail or excessive speed? How much force does it take to drive a guardrail through a vehicle?

If there were 20 things wrong with our nations highways, guardrails would be 21st on the list. Hell, the bridges that we drive over today are in much need of repair and should be of higher priority.
 
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#12
#12
There was an accident just like this About two weeks ago near Nashville. Fortunately the lady driving wasn't injured and there wasn't a passenger with her or they'd have been destroyed
 
#13
#13
Rasputin_Vol said:
Look at the picture you posted to open the thread...

4c8b0a42c3bad.image.jpg


Now lets use some common sense here. Was the contributing factor for this to happen a faulty guardrail or excessive speed? How much force does it take to drive a guardrail through a vehicle?

If there were 20 things wrong with our nations highways, guardrails would be 21st on the list. Hell, the bridges that we drive over today are in much need of repair and should be of higher priority.
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Several years back there was a big deal made over some of the contractors hired to install the guardrails not digging the post holes deep enough and etc. the program I saw showed rail after rail that had posts with no footers and roughly 4-6 inches in the ground.
 
#15
#15
Rasputin_Vol said:
Look at the picture you posted to open the thread...

4c8b0a42c3bad.image.jpg


Now lets use some common sense here. Was the contributing factor for this to happen a faulty guardrail or excessive speed? How much force does it take to drive a guardrail through a vehicle?

If there were 20 things wrong with our nations highways, guardrails would be 21st on the list. Hell, the bridges that we drive over today are in much need of repair and should be of higher priority.
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How much force? I would say traveling at the posted speed limit would be enough.

Do away with the assumption that every mile of every highway in America is dangerous. We have laws in place that require every stretch of roadway to provide ample room for recovery in the event of a run-off-the-roadway event. For a high-speed, multi-lane highway like this one, that would require 30+ feet most likely in either direction of gently sloped clear zone.

Guardrails are only installed at stretches where something near the roadway cannot be relocated, and must therefore be protected. First, it must be determined that the guardrail is going to provide less of a hazard than the obstacle/slope/etc.

So if you have a breakaway light pole that's 20 feet off the roadway, and you put in a faulty guardrail to protect it, you've just increased the severity of any accident at the location most likely.
 
#17
#17
Rasputin_Vol said:
Look at the picture you posted to open the thread...

4c8b0a42c3bad.image.jpg


Now lets use some common sense here. Was the contributing factor for this to happen a faulty guardrail or excessive speed? How much force does it take to drive a guardrail through a vehicle?

If there were 20 things wrong with our nations highways, guardrails would be 21st on the list. Hell, the bridges that we drive over today are in much need of repair and should be of higher priority.
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Most interstate speed limits are 65+ mph, most highways are 55+. That is more than enough speed for a guardrail to impale a vehicle. You're talking about a 1 ton vehicle traveling at 55+ mph impacting a stationary object made of steel. Is that enough common sense for you?

How many people have you heard of getting killed due to bridges that need repair? I've never heard of any, but I'm sure it's possible.

Yet again, the priority of this issue compared to others isn't the point I'm trying to share. You keep making it about how important failing guardrail end terminals are compared to other issues on the road. The point is faulty guardrail end terminals are all over our country's roadways and have the potential to maim and kill people; and the company who produced them made changes without notifying the governments.
 
#18
#18
Furthermore, Trinity knowingly made changes, without notifying federal highway officials, and they have $1.2 billion in cash to fix it.
 
#22
#22
Senators Urge GAO To Investigate Federal Highway Administration Framework Following Questionable Testing Of Potentially-Defective Guardrails | Press Releases | United States Senator Richard Blumenthal

“The developments over the past several months raise serious questions about the effectiveness of the current framework for evaluating the reliability and integrity of roadside hardware products, including guardrail end terminals. Under the current oversight regimen, several parties are involved in setting safety standards and evaluating whether roadside hardware devices meet appropriate criteria,” they wrote.

“FHWA, as the guardian of federal taxpayer dollars, has a unique and vital role and responsibility in ensuring that roadside hardware has been properly vetted for safety purposes and is eligible for reimbursement with federal funds.”
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The first paragraph of the letter.

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) disburses about $40 billion annually to states for projects to build, improve and maintain the nation’s highways and bridges. These projects incorporate important safety features, including roadside safety hardware devices like reflectors, steel guardrails, sign posts, concrete barrier walls, and breakaway highway lighting poles, among other equipment critical to the safety of the traveling public. In recent months, we have witnessed a host of troubling developments that call into question the safety of certain roadside devices known as highway guardrail end terminals. In October 2014, a federal jury in Texas returned a $525 million verdict against a manufacturer of these devices who was alleged to have altered their specifications without notifying federal authorities. Since then, dozens of states have suspended installation of these devices on their roads. Some experts have voiced concerns about the devices as well.
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#23
#23
Our university recently hired the guy who invented the Safer Barrier used in NASCAR and who does extensive research on guardrail design. He has some pretty cool videos of the experiments he conducts to test them.
 
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