Scottish Independence

#1
alexmanu

alexmanu

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#1
Seeing as the vote will be happening very soon I thought a new thread should be made for anyone wanting to discuss the topic.

Personally I think it would be a disastrous decision for the Scottish people if they vote to leave the Union. Regardless, it won't have much of an affect on my life but I think it would be sad to lose a big chunk of the UK.

BBC News - Scottish independence: Vote 'will go to the wire'
 
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#2
#2
If you don't play ball with the establishment, they threaten you with terrorism...

Cameron Warns of Terrorist Threat If Scotland Backs Independence - Bloomberg


Scotland will be more vulnerable to terrorist attacks in a “very dangerous and insecure world” if it votes for independence on Sept. 18, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said.
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“With terrorist threats and other threats, isn’t it better to be part of a United Kingdom that has a top-five defense budget, some of the best intelligence and security services anywhere in the world, that is part of every single alliance that really matters in the world in terms of NATO, the G-8, the G-20, the European Union, a member of the security council of the UN?” Cameron said. “All those networks and abilities to work with allies to keep us safe. Isn’t it better to have those things than separate yourself from them?”
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#3
#3
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#6
#6
So, Alex, I'll ask you here about the general sense you get among the English regarding this vote. Good, bad, don't care, blah? What?
 
#7
#7
One particular independence policy from the SNP got me very very angry. English, Welsh and NI students would have to pay to go to Scottish Universities, while students from other EU member-states would get to go for free just like the Scottish students. That policy is plain illegal under EU discrimination laws, the former EU commissioner for Education said as much!

And, quite frankly, the policy is not economically viable. How much do they want to increases taxes on the people of Scotland?! They want to abolish tuition fees, increases public spending yet they fail to realise that they will have to figure out how to fund their NHS and other public services. They can't get subsidized by us English anymore, good luck with that Scotland! They can't rely on North Sea Oil because estimates are usually not met and if that's what they're reliant on as a nation to fund their public services then they're ****ed.
 
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#8
#8
If they get out now they won't have to pay their share of the next round of City of London bailouts. Of course, if they don't institute a central bank they'll be invaded.
 
#10
#10
volprof said:
So, Alex, I'll ask you here about the general sense you get among the English regarding this vote. Good, bad, don't care, blah? What?
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There are varying opinions. No English person wants to keep Scotland in the Union for any reason other than the fact that it would be "sad" to see part of the UK go etc. etc.

When most of them look at the real issues then an independent Scotland would make England better off generally. It's a big chunk of the UK in terms of land but not a massive chunk in terms of people that you would be losing. Also, the SNP is a loony lefty political party and I think a lot of English people would find it quite amusing to see Scotland go to pot and it be their own doing!
 
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#11
#11
red butler said:
If they get out now they won't have to pay their share of the next round of City of London bailouts. Of course, if they don't institute a central bank they'll be invaded.
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If Scotland don't pay their portion of the national debt then the international money markets would have them for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The interest rates on their loans would be astronomical, mortgage rates would increase etc. there would be a massive negative knock-on affect. It's quite funny how little weight the economic argument for an independent Scotland has. :loco:
 
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#12
#12
alexmanu said:
There are varying opinions. No English person wants to keep Scotland in the Union for any reason other than the fact that it would be "sad" to see part of the UK go etc. etc.

When most of them look at the real issues then an independent Scotland would make England better off generally. It's a big chunk of the UK in terms of land but not a massive chunk in terms of people that you would be losing. Also, the SNP is a loony lefty political party and I think a lot of English people would find it quite amusing to see Scotland go to pot and it be their own doing!
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I agree with you. I think it will sink that country very quickly. We'll see though. I'll at least give them props: their notion of secession is much more peaceful and diplomatic than Russia's notion of self-determination, whether it be against (in Chechnya) or for (Ukraine).
 
#13
#13
alexmanu said:
If Scotland don't pay their portion of the national debt then the international money markets would have them for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The interest rates on their loans would be astronomical, mortgage rates would increase etc. there would be a massive negative knock-on affect. It's quite funny how little weight the economic argument for an independent Scotland has. :loco:
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Do you think it will vote to be free? Last I heard it was damn close near split.
 
#14
#14
volprof said:
Do you think it will vote to be free? Last I heard it was damn close near split.
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Too close to call, just shows you how nationalism blinds people. Loads of them will be voting Yes for emotional and patriotic reasons and, while some people would respect that, I say that is stupid. You don't risk your kids futures on a nationalist whim IMO. If you look at the facts and figures voting for independence is not a logical decision.
 
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#15
#15
alexmanu said:
If Scotland don't pay their portion of the national debt then the international money markets would have them for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The interest rates on their loans would be astronomical, mortgage rates would increase etc. there would be a massive negative knock-on affect. It's quite funny how little weight the economic argument for an independent Scotland has. :loco:
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I'm talking about the debt that hasn't been incurred yet. If they're smart, they won't use a debt currency system and won't take on any loans.
 
#16
#16
Seems pretty silly for Scotland to leave the UK when we've just built some beautiful warships :p. Future projects will not use their shipyards if they go independent.

_76046615_023015222-1.jpg


Royal_Navy_Type_45_destroyer_HMS_Daring_MOD_45154175.jpg


Also the UK gov. wants to build a spaceport, lots of prospective sites are in Scotland. But, once again, if they go independent then the spaceport will be in England or Wales.
 
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#17
#17
red butler said:
I'm talking about the debt that hasn't been incurred yet. If they're smart, they won't use a debt currency system and won't take on any loans.
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Have you seen the SNP's public spending plans?! You think the UK has a big welfare-state, see what they're proposing for Scotland, it's ludicrous. And they're proposing to fund it through the volatile North Sea Oil. If they get below estimates on the oil for the financial year then they'll have to raise taxes significantly to fund their nanny-state.
 
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#18
#18
alexmanu said:
Seems pretty silly for Scotland to leave the UK when we've just built some beautiful warships :p. Future projects will not use their shipyards if they go independent.

_76046615_023015222-1.jpg


Royal_Navy_Type_45_destroyer_HMS_Daring_MOD_45154175.jpg


Also the UK gov. wants to build a spaceport, lots of prospective sites are in Scotland. But, once again, if they go independent then the spaceport will be in England or Wales.
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I'm sure they can find some other country to buy their boats. I seem to recall France is holding a couple of warships from delivery. :whistling:
 
#19
#19
alexmanu said:
Have you seen the SNP's public spending plans?! You think the UK has a big welfare-state, see what they're proposing for Scotland, it's ludicrous. And they're proposing to fund it through the volatile North Sea Oil. If they get below estimates on the oil for the financial year then they'll have to raise taxes significantly to fund their nanny-state.
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If they're planning to go more socialist, they will certainly have problems.
 
#20
#20
red butler said:
I'm sure they can find some other country to buy their boats. I seem to recall France is holding a couple of warships from delivery. :whistling:
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I shouldn't have written "their shipyards", it's the shipyard workers they have to worry about. I think some of the shipyards might be owned by the MoD anyway. If they go independent they obviously won't get any new MoD projects so that means thousands of shipyard workers with no work!
 
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#21
#21
red butler said:
If they're planning to go more socialist, they will certainly have problems.
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That's one of the main arguments from the pro-independent SNP. They think Westminster is too conservative or "overrun with Tories" as they call it. I would say that is a load of rubbish but they can have fun ruining their country with their more socialism dream.
 
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#22
#22
alexmanu said:
That's one of the main arguments from the pro-independent SNP. They think Westminster is too conservative or "overrun with Tories" as they call it. I would say that is a load of rubbish but they can have fun ruining their country with their more socialism dream.
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That makes me sad. Scots seem like such cool people. This kinda sours my view on them a bit.
 
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