The politics and the realities of the VA scandal

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

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#1
This is not what you think it will be.

Politics

First, I do not think Obama is handling this well, at all. As stated yesterday (I heard it on the radio, so do not know who it was exactly, just a Democrat in Congress), Obama's lack of sense of urgency is really poor here. He needs to be much more on top of this.

Second, I have mixed feelings about firing Shinseki. On the one hand, it seems to me that he has lost the confidence of the vets and of Congress. I don't think he can ever recover that. On the other hand, I think that would just largely just be symbolic, and would not actually change anything, or get to the root of the problem, in the every day operation of VA hospitals. My suspicion is that he will have to go at some point in the not too distant future -- I just don't want anyone to be deluded into thinking that it solves anything.

Reality

I am not a vet, and so I tend to view this through the prism of going to the doctor or the hospital, myself. And so it doesn't translate perfectly.

I guess my question is whether the problem is that there are simply not enough doctors, or, are the doctors they have bad and lazy, or is there some sort of bureaucratic hassle thrust upon them that makes them inefficient?

Now (and to return to politics for a moment), it kind of pisses me off to see some of the usual partisan nonsense that wants to turn this into another Obamacare attack. Ok, ok, we get it, but hey for now can we please concentrate on this agency and fix this, first?

And back to reality, if its a shortage of doctors, the answer is to hire more doctors. That means more spending, but if that is what we have to do, then that is what we have to do.

If its that the ones we have suck, then that probably means spending more money to get good ones. That's just a fact.

If its bureaucratic nonsense, then let's figure out a way to free the doctors up from that so they have more time for patient care. I don't think the solution is some sort of policy or regulation on number of visits, etc. That just adds to bureaucracy and makes it worse.

I think what we need to do is to get a sense of every day life at a VA facility. What do they (the health care providers) spend their time doing? If its just that there are too few of them, then that needs to be fixed.

Its probably some combination of the two. I really hope, for the sake of the veterans and especially their confidence in the program, that politicians of every party and stripe, can just agree for a moment to sit down, roll up their sleeves, and really try to understand how it is working at the every day level. No photo ops. No speeches. Just find out from people doing it what the problem is.
 
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#2
#2
Obama lied, Vets died

he's all talk and no action. You think he truly cares about military vets? Only reason he cares is because people are finally starting to hold him accountable for all the failings in his admin.
 
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#5
#5
utvolpj said:
Obama lied, Vets died

he's all talk and no action. You think he truly cares about military vets? Only reason he cares is because people are finally starting to hold him accountable for all the failings in his admin.
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I've said his response is piss poor. But these problems have been around for awhile and in the end its not a question of who is in the White House. Its a question of do we have enough health care providers to meet the demand. If we do the question is what is it that is keeping them from getting the job done? If we don't, the solution is to hire more.
 
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#6
#6
lawgator1 said:
I've said his response is piss poor. But these problems have been around for awhile and in the end its not a question of who is in the White House. Its a question of do we have enough health care providers to meet the demand. If we do the question is what is it that is keeping them from getting the job done? If we don't, the solution is to hire more.
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he's been there for 5 years, knew about the issues and even addressed them as candidate Obama. He then brushed it aside like all campaign promises

he needs to make a public spectacle of firing some of the incompetent people he has working with the VA (starting with Shinseki). He then needs to find someone who is invested in the process and has a track record of getting results and tell them to get to fixing it and report back once a week. Of course that requires leadership and that's not Obama's strength
 
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#7
#7
lawgator1 said:
I've said his response is piss poor. But these problems have been around for awhile and in the end its not a question of who is in the White House. Its a question of do we have enough health care providers to meet the demand. If we do the question is what is it that is keeping them from getting the job done? If we don't, the solution is to hire more.
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When the guy attacked president Bush for the way the hospitals were being run and then claimed he would take care of the vets and make sure they got the care they needed, then it does matter who is in the White House.
 
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#8
#8
utvolpj said:
he's been there for 5 years, knew about the issues and even addressed them as candidate Obama. He then brushed it aside like all campaign promises

he needs to make a public spectacle of firing some of the incompetent people he has working with the VA (starting with Shinseki). He then needs to find someone who is invested in the process and has a track record of getting results and tell them to get to fixing it and report back once a week. Of course that requires leadership and that's not Obama's strength
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I do not disagree with you except to say that firing one guy, or even ten, is going to fix this. Its more fundamental than that, it seems to me.
 
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#9
#9
davethevol said:
When the guy attacked president Bush for the way the hospitals were being run and then claimed he would take care of the vets and make sure they got the care they needed, then it does matter who is in the White House.
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I agree. He has let them down. And what's worse, he has a chance to make it right and he's not doing it.
 
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#10
#10
lawgator1 said:
I do not disagree with you except to say that firing one guy, or even ten, is going to fix this. Its more fundamental than that, it seems to me.
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remove the right people and insert the right people and things will happen. Unfortunately your guy has not shown any ability to do either. Meanwhile people who have honorably served their country are left to die without the care promised. Well done
 
#12
#12
BearCat beat me to it about your login LG.

But I will say I'll disagree with your presumption that axing Shinseki will not fix the problem. If someone isn't cutting the mustard (and it appears he really isn't) then the proper thing to do is have someone specifically charged with getting in there and fixing the mess this thing has become. And it's a huge public signal that the admin is taking it serious and is pissed. And is willing to do what is necessary to fix this problem.

But this does go back to what I've said time and time again. If you cannot be decisive in a moment like this it will ultimately highlight your lack of leadership abilities. If we don't see Shinseki gone in the next week, it ultimately means Obama is failing in his leadership and is not taking this serious.

I'm not holding my breath. No official in the Administration has been held into account since he's been in office. I highly doubt that's going to change now.
 
#13
#13
lawgator1 said:
I've said his response is piss poor. But these problems have been around for awhile and in the end its not a question of who is in the White House. Its a question of do we have enough health care providers to meet the demand. If we do the question is what is it that is keeping them from getting the job done? If we don't, the solution is to hire more.
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Do you now understand the distain most have for the single payer system Obamacare is leading us to? This current VA mess x10000
 
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#14
#14
Grand Vol said:
BearCat beat me to it about your login LG.

But I will say I'll disagree with your presumption that axing Shinseki will not fix the problem. If someone isn't cutting the mustard (and it appears he really isn't) then the proper thing to do is have someone specifically charged with getting in there and fixing the mess this thing has become. And it's a huge public signal that the admin is taking it serious and is pissed. And is willing to do what is necessary to fix this problem.

But this does go back to what I've said time and time again. If you cannot be decisive in a moment like this it will ultimately highlight your lack of leadership abilities. If we don't see Shinseki gone in the next week, it ultimately means Obama is failing in his leadership and is not taking this serious.

I'm not holding my breath. No official in the Administration has been held into account since he's been in office. I highly doubt that's going to change now.
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I would imagine he's going. I just don't want people prancing around afterward thinking that is going to fix this. This is an example of where I wish there was a major investigation by an outside agent, that doesn't just interview cherry picked people, but shows up at the VA facilities and watches how they do things for a period of days at each one. Figure out whether its administrative or personnel or some combination.
 
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#15
#15
lawgator1 said:
I would imagine he's going. I just don't want people prancing around afterward thinking that is going to fix this. This is an example of where I wish there was a major investigation by an outside agent, that doesn't just interview cherry picked people, but shows up at the VA facilities and watches how they do things for a period of days at each one. Figure out whether its administrative or personnel or some combination.
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I think I'll stand on my original theory that Obama will do nothing to fix this like he continues to do nothing to fix anything else. And zero accountability will be held in our government.

The man learned about it in the press for God's sake. How out of touch can you be?
 
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#16
#16
lawgator1 said:
I've said his response is piss poor. But these problems have been around for awhile and in the end its not a question of who is in the White House.
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Yes it is

He has known about this since 2008...and how long has he been it WH?

And its only gotten worse much worse on his watch
 
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#18
#18
L-O-L

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/opinion/krugman-vouchers-for-veterans-and-other-bad-ideas.html

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: November 13, 2011
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What Mr. Romney and everyone else should know is that the V.H.A. is a huge policy success story, which offers important lessons for future health reform.

Many people still have an image of veterans’ health care based on the terrible state of the system two decades ago. Under the Clinton administration, however, the V.H.A. was overhauled, and achieved a remarkable combination of rising quality and successful cost control. Multiple surveys have found the V.H.A. providing better care than most Americans receive, even as the agency has held cost increases well below those facing Medicare and private insurers. Furthermore, the V.H.A. has led the way in cost-saving innovation, especially the use of electronic medical records.
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#25
#25
Obsessed said:
Give me a bit. I'll have to find the link. It was in another thread.
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Ok.

Hey, I'm open to the possibility, even probability, that the raw numbers of everything are up because of the end of the Iraq war and the efforts in Afghanistan.

I realize some would spin that as the fault of the administration, but I think the core problems have been around for quite some time.

Again, I'd like to see a much more energized approach to the problem by Obama.
 
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