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Old 04-05-2013, 09:10 AM   #16
 utvolpj 
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they've talked about using a truth serum on the Aurora shooter to find out if he's really insane. Can't imagine Constitutionality is really a concern for many anymore

besides, anyone who has watched Maury knows there are lots of incorrect polygraph results
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:32 AM   #17
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they've talked about using a truth serum on the Aurora shooter to find out if he's really insane. Can't imagine Constitutionality is really a concern for many anymore

besides, anyone who has watched Maury knows there are lots of incorrect polygraph results
Or, they could've just listened to his doctor.

Aurora Shooter's Doctor Warned Campus Police
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:36 AM   #18
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Ok - dude did it. But what about defenses? Like the necessity defense. There needs to be discretion in the criminal process.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #19
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I would imagine this borders on self incrimination.

I'll stick with someone having to prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt vs me having to prove my innocence beyond a reasonable doubt
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #20
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My concern would be whether or not these machines/results could be manipulated. My guess is that they could be.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:46 AM   #21
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I would imagine this borders on self incrimination.

I'll stick with someone having to prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt vs me having to prove my innocence beyond a reasonable doubt
I don't disagree with that principle. Even then, I think this would, ironically, lead to far fewer cases of innocent people being found guilty.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:55 AM   #22
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I don't disagree with that principle. Even then, I think this would, ironically, lead to far fewer cases of innocent people being found guilty.
I think it would lead to more.

The goal of a prosecutor is to get convictions, not to find the truth. Conviction rates equal re-election.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #23
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I think it would lead to more.

The goal of a prosecutor is to get convictions, not to find the truth. Conviction rates equal re-election.
Right, so if you remove a prosecutor from the equation and let the machine do the work (given the machine is 99.9% accurate), it seems that it would prove innocence even in cases where a prosecutor may have enough evidence to convince a jury of guilt.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #24
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Right, so if you remove a prosecutor from the equation and let the machine do the work (given the machine is 99.9% accurate), it seems that it would prove innocence even in cases where a prosecutor may have enough evidence to convince a jury of guilt.
There would always be someone benefiting from the prosecution/conviction.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #25
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I was listening to the Adam Carolla pod cast the other day, and he had an interesting idea about how criminal trials could be conducted in the future. His idea is based on the premise that, if brain scanning machines evolve so much that they can tell if a person is lying 99.6% of the time, then we could do away with a jury and judgement system. Simply use the suspect's scan evaluation as evidence of guilt or not. I think it is an interesting idea because it would almost certainly be a more accurate and efficient way of determining guilt or innocence, but it would come at the expense of possibly multiple infringements of rights. What issues would this method of judgement bring up in your mind?
So, Carolla wants to get rid of Fifth Amendment protections? Further, if we are going to posit such incredible brain scanning machines, what happens if we also posit brain control devices (or, technology that counters these scanners)?

I would assume that with nano-technology, one could have such devices without being detected.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:28 AM   #26
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Didn't the movie "Minority Report" pretty much cover all this?
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #27
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Didn't the movie "Minority Report" pretty much cover all this?
Not really. Those were crimes that had not been committed.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #28
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Not really. Those were crimes that had not been committed.
and so is this idea. For example, someone who has killed a person is not always guilty of a crime
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #29
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So, Carolla wants to get rid of Fifth Amendment protections? Further, if we are going to posit such incredible brain scanning machines, what happens if we also posit brain control devices (or, technology that counters these scanners)?

I would assume that with nano-technology, one could have such devices without being detected.
I think Carolla was saying it off the cuff with no real thought to the effects it would have to the constitution.

And as for your positing the brain control device, then that would totally negate the technology and we would be right back where we started.

What if the positing was limited to only the incredible brain scan machine? Agreed that it would be self incriminating, but could the added efficiency and accuracy in determining cases make the sacrifice in rights worth it? Not saying it would be worth it, just asking if it would warrant any discussion.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #30
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and so is this idea. For example, someone who has killed a person is not always guilty of a crime
True.
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