If the US Goverment were wiped out....., how fast could we get things running again.

[OrangeEmpire]

Just a silly stupid question.....thought....

I think a government could be formed relatively quickly, but the questions becomes would it be seen as legitimate with so many officials being appointed instead of elected?

I suspect the country would rally at first and be united but how it went after the first few months or year would largely depend on the level of leadership and how quickly elected representatives took office.

Also the response to the attack itself would be important as well. If the new unelected president took extreme emergency measures such as declaring martial law or halting elections it might ignite civil disobedience or worse.

[OneManGang]

15-20 minutes tops.

There is an established line of succession for the President. The governors of the several states are empowered to appoint members of the House of Representatives and the Senate inthe event of their demise. Given modern communications technology, the notion that the Congress has to meet in the Capitol is more a homage to the buggy-whip than a physical necessity.

Each state has rules for "special elections" to replace dead/incapacitated/imprisoned members of Congress. This would kick in.

The bureaucracy that really runs things is simply far too large to kill off at one blow.

Also the military has command and control nodes all over the country and a set of airborne command posts that are manned and staffed at all times.

Most of these problems were addressed during the "bad old days" of the Cold War.

[USMCvol]

To think our government, which was embarassed by Katrina, would continue operations in 15-20 minutes is optimistic. This is the government we are talking about. While in a few hours, we might get the ball rolling, whether the emergency government would have any control over the country is left to be seen.

[CSpindizzy]

Originally Posted by OneManGang

15-20 minutes tops.
Most of these problems were addressed during the "bad old days" of the Cold War.

Many problems have been addressed by the government and still when a real life situation occurs the outcome is far different than the planning.

[OneManGang]

The GOVERNMENT did not fail during Katrina, governors were still governors, sheriffs were still sheriffs and (God help us) mayors were still mayors.

Individual parts of the governmental structure failed - many due to the innate ineptitude of Louisiana government at all levels - and the feds could have shown better.

Mississippi - which is no model of efficiency on its own, did a far better job of organizing and co-ordinating relief operations. Of course, pointing that out wouldn't scare the wits out of people so, naturally, the LWM downplayed it. Also Florida was hit by a similar hurricane in roughly the same time-frame and handled it as a matter of course. No story promoting the "Bush failed da po' folk" in there either, so it got ignored as well.

All that aside, the original question dealt with governmental structure - not how this or that agency in particular would respond.

[USMCvol]

Originally Posted by OneManGang

The GOVERNMENT did not fail during Katrina, governors were still governors, sheriffs were still sheriffs and (God help us) mayors were still mayors.

Individual parts of the governmental structure failed - many due to the innate ineptitude of Louisiana government at all levels - and the feds could have shown better.

Mississippi - which is no model of efficiency on its own, did a far better job of organizing and co-ordinating relief operations. Of course, pointing that out wouldn't scare the wits out of people so, naturally, the LWM downplayed it. Also Florida was hit by a similar hurricane in roughly the same time-frame and handled it as a matter of course. No story promoting the "Bush failed da po' folk" in there either, so it got ignored as well.

All that aside, the original question dealt with governmental structure - not how this or that agency in particular would respond.

I wasn't blaming anyone (perhaps ray nagin) about the response. But a disaster stuck, with advance warning, and our govenments response was slow. Imagine the destruction of a vital part of our government, there is no way we would be back on our feet for a few days.

[CSpindizzy]

The government did not fall. Bult clearly the government could not even handle a natural disaster that happened hundreds of miles away from the Capital.

I'm not one who puts more weight on the state and local government inadequacies. I weigh more fault in this situation on the Federal government. Seeing how even months after Katrina, the federal government could not even move trailers to the area and then could not get over the fact that the trailers all had the same key.

[therealUT]

Originally Posted by CSpindizzy

The government did not fall. Bult clearly the government could not even handle a natural disaster that happened hundreds of miles away from the Capital.

I'm not one who puts more weight on the state and local government inadequacies. I weigh more fault in this situation on the Federal government. Seeing how even months after Katrina, the federal government could not even move trailers to the area and then could not get over the fact that the trailers all had the same key.

This is going to sound very insensitive, however, I believe that as years pass, many will view Katrina as a blessing in the sense that it taught Americans that they should not rely on the Federal Gov't to bail them out in the case of an emergency. People should place their trust and burden of responsibility on themselves, their family, their Church, their friends, their local gov't, their state gov't, and, last and certainly least, the Federal Gov't.

[CSpindizzy]

Oh I agree completely. But when the Army Corps of Engineers holds responsibility for maintaining and strengthening the levees and their breaking was responsible for the flooding, there will be blame. There are certain basics that the Federal government is responsible for. When those basics cannot be handled do we have confidence in the government to survive a greater crisis that directly affects it? (getting back to the original topic)

[therealUT]

Originally Posted by CSpindizzy

Oh I agree completely. But when the Army Corps of Engineers holds responsibility for maintaining and strengthening the levees and their breaking was responsible for the flooding, there will be blame. There are certain basics that the Federal government is responsible for. When those basics cannot be handled do we have confidence in the government to survive a greater crisis that directly affects it? (getting back to the original topic)

On the original question, it really depends upon how much of the US government was removed. If it was simply the President, the President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House, I would say it would take a week to get things back to a more normal working order. However, if it is all elected federal officials, I believe it would take at least a month. Further, if it was all elected and appointed federal officials, then we have lost the war to whomever took those people out. Goodbye America.

[CSpindizzy]

I can tell you right now that DC owes great thanks to a certain plane that crashed in PA on 9/11. If that plane had hit the Capitol, there was a very high probability that much of that city would have been burned to the ground. Everything around that building to the E, NE, and SE is a tinderbox. All of those old rowhouses in that area would have gone up in flames and would have spread very fast that day. Winds were decent for spreading the fire.

I've been told by some high ranking police and fire personnel in DC that those few people who charged the cockpit saved DC from being burned to the ground in addition to potentially blowing up the Capitol building.

[therealUT]

Originally Posted by CSpindizzy

I can tell you right now that DC owes great thanks to a certain plane that crashed in PA on 9/11. If that plane had hit the Capitol, there was a very high probability that much of that city would have been burned to the ground. Everything around that building to the E, NE, and SE is a tinderbox. All of those old rowhouses in that area would have gone up in flames and would have spread very fast that day. Winds were decent for spreading the fire.

I've been told by some high ranking police and fire personnel in DC that those few people who charged the cockpit saved DC from being burned to the ground in addition to potentially blowing up the Capitol building.

Which is why I feel that 93 was shot out of the sky...and I have absolutely no problem with that. Considering that the recovered black box proves that they were not able to break through the cabin door and get into the cockpit and that even the 9/11 Commission came to the auspicious conclusion that the hijackers crashed the plane to keep the passengers from gaining control sure makes one wonder why anyone does not feel that our Air Force performed their duty well that day.

[GVF]

Originally Posted by USMCvol

I wasn't blaming anyone (perhaps ray nagin) about the response. But a disaster stuck, with advance warning, and our govenments response was slow. Imagine the destruction of a vital part of our government, there is no way we would be back on our feet for a few days.

Technically, by federal law, the feds can't come in on a disaster like that until the state and local gov't call for disaster help/relief and request federal assistance. The state of Louisianna and New Orleans itaself dropped that ball. They refused the Red Cross twice, before allowing them in. Bush was a scape goat in this instance. And he had wusses running the agencies that couldn't get it done once they got in. Nagin was afraid everyone would want to know where all the monies for levy maintenance and updating went. that briefly came up and was pushed aside, and the current admin got the ball turned on them. This is a fairly loose paraphrase of some reports I saw. Don't know how accurate??

[J.Quest]

I think that's about right...Ray "Chocolate City / School Bus" Nagin set his city up for failure. The pictures of unused school buses...mandatory evac only 18 hours befor the hurricane, funneling folks into an il-equipped Super Dome... And then the good people of NO re-elect him for a job well done...Sheeesh!

[CSpindizzy]

The failure here all came from the levees. Had those levees been strengthened like they should have, there would have been little to no flooding. The city flooded because the levees broke - plain and simple. Had Congress heeded the calls to send more money and had the Corps spent it on strengthening the levees, there is a great chance this would not have happened.

Yes, Nagin and Blanco did a poor response but the issue began when levees gave way. Who controls the levees?