Off Shore Banks Indicted

#2
#2
Save the rich? God this phrase is getting old.

The only difference between liberals and everyone else is that liberals insist on "the rich" paying "their fair share" while everybody else just wants to be fair (equal) across the board.
 
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#3
#3
Save the rich? God this phrase is getting old.

The only difference between liberals and everyone else is that liberals insist on "the rich" paying "their fair share" while everybody else just wants to be fair (equal) across the board.


Unless the tax system is changed as sickening as it is to say the liberals are actually correct. We have a progressive tax system the more one makes the more one pays.
It is not right but it is our system. We desperately need to go to some type of a flat or fair tax.
 
#4
#4
Unless the tax system is changed as sickening as it is to say the liberals are actually correct. We have a progressive tax system the more one makes the more one pays.
It is not right but it is our system. We desperately need to go to some type of a flat or fair tax.
That would require removing all the crooks from Washington.. Would be a big job..
 
#5
#5
Unless the tax system is changed as sickening as it is to say the liberals are actually correct. We have a progressive tax system the more one makes the more one pays.
It is not right but it is our system. We desperately need to go to some type of a flat or fair tax.

I have a lot of agreement here. I agree a flat or fair tax is the way to go. However, the reality is when the top 1% or so control the vast majority of the wealth, and the bottom vast majority have split the rest, the progressive tax system will be a reality in a democratic society. It is what it is.

This isn't an endorsement of the progressive system, like I said, the flat or fair is the way to go in my opinion, but I just don't see it as a political reality.
 
#6
#6
Unless the tax system is changed as sickening as it is to say the liberals are actually correct. We have a progressive tax system the more one makes the more one pays.
It is not right but it is our system. We desperately need to go to some type of a flat or fair tax.

How is a progressive tax system "saving the rich"?
 
#7
#7
I have a lot of agreement here. I agree a flat or fair tax is the way to go. However, the reality is when the top 1% or so control the vast majority of the wealth, and the bottom vast majority have split the rest, the progressive tax system will be a reality in a democratic society. It is what it is.

This isn't an endorsement of the progressive system, like I said, the flat or fair is the way to go in my opinion, but I just don't see it as a political reality.

The problem is, the wealth belongs to them in the first place. It isn't mine to take via taxes, extortion, or any other thing that this administration has tried.
 
#9
#9
The problem is, the wealth belongs to them in the first place. It isn't mine to take via taxes, extortion, or any other thing that this administration has tried.

The progressive system has been in place under both parties. The dems may take it further with their ideology, but it will always be a political reality with both parties, unfortunately.
 
#10
#10
The progressive system has been in place under both parties. The dems may take it further with their ideology, but it will always be a political reality with both parties, unfortunately.

It has not even been a political reality for 100 years in the US.
 
#14
#14
That might be true; it might be false. The institution of progressive income tax in America is certainly not immutable or inviolable.

You're arguing just to argue. It is now, and unless significant political change occurs, it will more than likely stay this way for awhile.

I suspect it will take more people paying into the system for such change to happen.
 
#15
#15
Unless the tax system is changed as sickening as it is to say the liberals are actually correct. We have a progressive tax system the more one makes the more one pays.
It is not right but it is our system. We desperately need to go to some type of a flat or fair tax.
how does a comment like "it is not right" square with your first sentence? Help a brother out here. It being "our system" likely means it isn't right at this point. Exacerbating the problem doesn't help.
 
#16
#16
The progressive system has been in place under both parties. The dems may take it further with their ideology, but it will always be a political reality with both parties, unfortunately.

why? It's only a political reality in a world where taxing other people means buying votes.
 
#18
#18
You're arguing just to argue. It is now, and unless significant political change occurs, it will more than likely stay this way for awhile.

I suspect it will take more people paying into the system for such change to happen.

On the contrary, I am not arguing simply to argue. I truly believe that the progressive tax, at the Federal level, will be discarded within the next twenty years (five major election cycles).

It does not take more individuals paying into the system for the change to happen; on the contrary, as jobs continue to be scarce, as incentives for production continue to be penalized, the electorate and the government will continue to face an economic crisis. I think that the momentum is building and will continue to build for a massive paradigm shift in distributive justice; I think that the most extreme forms of egalitarianism have already and unsuccessfully run their course (socialist states), and I think that even more modest forms of egalitarianism (redistribution, progressive taxes, welfare, etc.) will give way to sufficientarian distributive justice models.

Contemporary political philosophy is already moving in that direction, contemporary economists are discarding Keynesian models and working with neo-classical models, and much of the younger generation (35 and younger) in American has very strong libertarian leanings.

I would not be so pessimistic with regard to the possibility that the progressive income tax is out of gas.
 
#19
#19
On the contrary, I am not arguing simply to argue. I truly believe that the progressive tax, at the Federal level, will be discarded within the next twenty years (five major election cycles).

It does not take more individuals paying into the system for the change to happen; on the contrary, as jobs continue to be scarce, as incentives for production continue to be penalized, the electorate and the government will continue to face an economic crisis. I think that the momentum is building and will continue to build for a massive paradigm shift in distributive justice; I think that the most extreme forms of egalitarianism have already and unsuccessfully run their course (socialist states), and I think that even more modest forms of egalitarianism (redistribution, progressive taxes, welfare, etc.) will give way to sufficientarian distributive justice models.

Contemporary political philosophy is already moving in that direction, contemporary economists are discarding Keynesian models and working with neo-classical models, and much of the younger generation (35 and younger) in American has very strong libertarian leanings.

I would not be so pessimistic with regard to the possibility that the progressive income tax is out of gas.

What can I say, modern political discourse has made me a cynic. I have little faith in your utopian view, as much as I would love it to be true.
 
#20
#20
On the contrary, I am not arguing simply to argue. I truly believe that the progressive tax, at the Federal level, will be discarded within the next twenty years (five major election cycles).

It does not take more individuals paying into the system for the change to happen; on the contrary, as jobs continue to be scarce, as incentives for production continue to be penalized, the electorate and the government will continue to face an economic crisis. I think that the momentum is building and will continue to build for a massive paradigm shift in distributive justice; I think that the most extreme forms of egalitarianism have already and unsuccessfully run their course (socialist states), and I think that even more modest forms of egalitarianism (redistribution, progressive taxes, welfare, etc.) will give way to sufficientarian distributive justice models.

Contemporary political philosophy is already moving in that direction, contemporary economists are discarding Keynesian models and working with neo-classical models, and much of the younger generation (35 and younger) in American has very strong libertarian leanings.

I would not be so pessimistic with regard to the possibility that the progressive income tax is out of gas.

I tend to agree with just about everything in your post in some way.
 
#21
#21
how does a comment like "it is not right" square with your first sentence? Help a brother out here. It being "our system" likely means it isn't right at this point. Exacerbating the problem doesn't help.

I do not think a progressive tax system is fair, thus it is not right. I think we need to change to some type of fair or flat tax with one rate on all income over the poverty level. That way everyone is equal in the per cent being paid.
 
#22
#22
Ok. You're going to have to tell me what you meant by your post.

a progressive tax system is not saving the rich. it is costing the rich.

saving the rich is just a line the dems use to say the GOP is the party of the rich because the GOP has fought to not increase the rates only on the rich. of course that had changed now and both sides are calling for higher taxes on the wealthy.
 
#23
#23
On the contrary, I am not arguing simply to argue. I truly believe that the progressive tax, at the Federal level, will be discarded within the next twenty years (five major election cycles).

It does not take more individuals paying into the system for the change to happen; on the contrary, as jobs continue to be scarce, as incentives for production continue to be penalized, the electorate and the government will continue to face an economic crisis. I think that the momentum is building and will continue to build for a massive paradigm shift in distributive justice; I think that the most extreme forms of egalitarianism have already and unsuccessfully run their course (socialist states), and I think that even more modest forms of egalitarianism (redistribution, progressive taxes, welfare, etc.) will give way to sufficientarian distributive justice models.

Contemporary political philosophy is already moving in that direction, contemporary economists are discarding Keynesian models and working with neo-classical models, and much of the younger generation (35 and younger) in American has very strong libertarian leanings.

I would not be so pessimistic with regard to the possibility that the progressive income tax is out of gas.

Will not happen without bloodshed and a severe overcorrection first.
 
#24
#24
Will not happen without bloodshed and a severe overcorrection first.

The same sentiment was expressed in 1950 concerning civil/equal rights for blacks and women. Four years later there was a ground breaking SCOTUS case and fifteen years later there was ground breaking legislation. Was there some bloodshed? Yes, but the blood that was shed was the blood of the protesters, not the blood of the agents of the state.

I am not saying that bloodshed will not happen; I am stating that it is not necessary for rapid and paradigm shifting change in America.
 
#25
#25
The same sentiment was expressed in 1950 concerning civil/equal rights for blacks and women. Four years later there was a ground breaking SCOTUS case and fifteen years later there was ground breaking legislation. Was there some bloodshed? Yes, but the blood that was shed was the blood of the protesters, not the blood of the agents of the state.

I am not saying that bloodshed will not happen; I am stating that it is not necessary for rapid and paradigm shifting change in America.

Today's US is almost 180 degrees from 1950 US. We are no longer a collective America but rather a bunch of special interest groups nor do we have the will to make hard decisions.
 

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