Fast and Furious, the whole bloody story.

[gsvol]

Barack Obama's Bloodiest Scandal - Katie Pavlich - Townhall Conservative Columnists

(The whole article worth reading, I don't care what ACLG and his butt kissing pals on this board say.)

Operation Fast and Furious is the deadliest and most sinister scandal in American history. A scandal so big, it’s worse than Iran-Contra and makes Watergate look like a high school prank gone wrong.

In the early days of the Obama Administration, President Obama claimed his goal was to stop the trafficking of guns from the United States into the hands of violent Mexican drug cartels. He claimed gun dealers in the United States were responsible for sending guns to Mexico. Both of his claims were lies.

Kudos to a recent ABC radio news broadcast, they quoted an AP (Arab Press aka Amalgamated (Orwelian) Propaganda) which stated the supposed fact that 70% of the guns used in crimes in Mexico had originated in the USA. (Of course as with any propaganda piece, the AP fails to mention that most of the guns recovered are known to have originated elsewhere, the Mexicans only submitted those guns that might have come from America, the real figure is less that 17% of the total.)

At any rate ABC did have the decency to note that the AP had failed to mention fast and furious (and several other similar federal operations of the like) and perhaps how many of thse weapons had come through the f&f program.

One can only sweep so much under the rug before everyone notices the rug is bulging upward.

[lawgator1]

I'm sorry, maybe you can clarify, are you claiming that the ONLY American-source guns in Mexico got there through f&f?

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by lawgator1

I'm sorry, maybe you can clarify, are you claiming that the ONLY American-source guns in Mexico got there through f&f?

No, not at all.

However we do know of at least four operations run by Holder, Napolitano and Clinton and still don't know if that was the full extent of such programs since the Obama administration has been stonewalling the congressional investigation since day one.

We also know that both Holder and Napolitano have perjured themselves before congress.

Four programs we know of.

1. Fast and Furious in Arizona.

2. A program in Texas that involved more guns than f&f and included some military hardware going to Mexico.

3. A state department approved operation in Florida that involved shipments to the notorious M-13 gangs in Honduras.

4. A program in Indiana that allowed guns into the hands of drug trafficers in Chicago and other cities.

[bamacheats]

I have no idea what connection you're making between some crappy movies and moslems.

[Danl]

Originally Posted by bamacheats

I have no idea what connection you're making between some crappy movies and moslems.

And neither does Capt Cut-n-Paste. He just hates Mooselimbs and Obama. And, of course, himself. But he'll never figure any of that out. Bless his heart.....

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by bamacheats

I have no idea what connection you're making between some crappy movies and moslems.

I have no freaking idea what you are talking about.

Would you care to explain?

Originally Posted by Danl

And neither does Capt Cut-n-Paste. He just hates Mooselimbs and Obama. And, of course, himself. But he'll never figure any of that out. Bless his heart.....

Bless your little pea picking heart also.

Would you care to adress the topic of this thread or just keep making cheap personal shots at me that you don't have anywhere like the ass to back up in real life other than from a keyboard?

[DinkinFlicka]

Originally Posted by gsvol

I have no freaking idea what you are talking about.

Would you care to explain?

Probably because you're in the upwards of 200 years old. When in doubt, google. Don't you do that anyway?

Originally Posted by gsvol

Bless your little pea picking heart also.

Would you care to adress the topic of this thread or just keep making cheap personal shots at me that you don't have anywhere like the ass to back up in real life other than from a keyboard?

Are they cheap because they're easy and effective?

[Danl]

Originally Posted by gsvol

Would you care to adress the topic of this thread or just keep making cheap personal shots at me that you don't have anywhere like the ass to back up in real life other than from a keyboard?

The topic of this thread, just like all of your threads, is some bs that you kiked from some bs blog. It doesn't deserve any "adress"ing.

Oh, and you are definitely the one spouting crap on the net that you would never say to people's faces. I would love to see you chat up some Mooselimbs in real life. You have never done that have you? Of course not. I bet the Institution won't even let them on your ward to visit.

[therealUT]

Gun-running has been occurring since at least 2006, when Operation Wide Receiver "sold" 450 assault rifles to suspected Mexican cartels. Fast & Furious is not qualitatively distinct from Wide Receiver; it only sent more guns (started with 650; increased to 2,000). The concept of both operations were identical.

[Thrasher865]

Damn. I really thought this was gonna be a 10 minute youtube rundown of all the F&F movies so I could get caught up before "F&F In Space" comes out next Summer.

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by therealUT

Gun-running has been occurring since at least 2006, when Operation Wide Receiver "sold" 450 assault rifles to suspected Mexican cartels. Fast & Furious is not qualitatively distinct from Wide Receiver; it only sent more guns (started with 650; increased to 2,000). The concept of both operations were identical.

True but during the Bush administration these programs were an effective deterent against wouldbe arms smugglers, guns and ammunition were intercepted before they crossed the border and smugglers were arrested and prosecuted.

The nature of these programs changed radically the day Obama took office and the programs were used to further the supposition that America needed more stringent guns laws.

Is Fast and Furious the Next Watergate?

When suspects in a crime are interrogated, they often develop memory loss. When the crime is running guns to drug cartels on both sides of the border, the crime involves the murder of a U.S. Border Patrol officer, Brian Terry, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent, Jaime Zapata, and countless Mexican citizens.

Katie Pavlich has written an extraordinary expose, "Fast and Furious: Barack Obama's Bloodiest Scandal and its Shameless Cover-Up" (Regnery Publishing). She is a veteran agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) who has meticulously documented a story that should result in contempt of Congress action against Attorney General Eric Holder and possibly Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano as well.
----------------------

As Pavlich details it, "Operation Fast and Furious wasn't a 'botched' program. It was a calculated and lethal decision to purposely place thousands of guns in the hands of ruthless criminals."

The operation was designed to attack the Second Amendment right of Americans to purchase and bear arms, a right considered so essential to the nation that it followed directly after the First Amendment rights of free speech, freedom of the press, the prohibition of the establishment of a nationally sanctioned religion, and the right of Americans to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

We are in the grip of an administration that would restrain and erase those rights, and which engaged in a reckless and ruthless operation to achieve that goal. It is an administration that is moving toward the confirmation of a United Nations treaty that would override and eliminate the right to own and bear arms.
-------------------------------

"Eric Holder was sent five memos, personally addressed to him, in the summer of 2010 that detailed Operation Fast and Furious." Holder claimed he first knew about the program in February 2011.

"Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has feigned ignorance when questioned about Fast and Furious. She claims she only found out about the program after Brian Terry was murdered."

"She visited the White House with Eric Holder to visit President Obama just a day before Holder testified on Capitol Hill about Fast and Furious, leaving the reason for her visit blank."

Pavlich writes, "These are the facts: There are still 1,400 Fast and Furious guns missing and ATF agents are not actively trying to track them down. Ten thousand round of ammunition were sold to cartel-linked straw buyers under the watch of the ATF. Eight hundred of the original 2,500 weapons sold through Fast and Furious have already been linked to criminal activity."
--------------------------

On March 23, 2011, in a Univison interview, Obama said, "First of all, I did not authorize it" and when further pressed said, "Eric Holder did not authorize it. He's been very clear that our policy is to catch gunrunners and put them in jail." The facts strongly suggest otherwise insofar as Fast and Furious literally authorized a gunrunning program under the aegis of ATF.

As Pavlich noted, "Many people in ATF saw what was happening and tried to warn the bureau, but the new corrupt and arrogant culture of management had become too powerful and intimidating. Field agents who spoke up were punished for having an opinion and daring to voice it. Whistleblowers had their reputation, careers, and finances shattered."

This culture of corruption is endemic to the Obama administration and as more and more examples become known it has been in full panic mode to suppress the truth.

[therealUT]

Originally Posted by gsvol

True but during the Bush administration these programs were an effective deterent against wouldbe arms smugglers, guns and ammunition were intercepted before they crossed the border and smugglers were arrested and prosecuted.

So, you view it as a scandal mainly because it was unsuccessful? That is quite ridiculous.

Originally Posted by gsvol

The nature of these programs changed radically the day Obama took office...

Negative. The quantity of weapons increased, the nature of the program and the aims of the program are nearly identical to Wide Receiver.

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by therealUT

1. So, you view it as a scandal mainly because it was unsuccessful? That is quite ridiculous.



2. Negative. The quantity of weapons increased, the nature of the program and the aims of the program are nearly identical to Wide Receiver.

NO, absolutly not, the only thing ridiculous is your question.

Reasons this is a scandal.

A. It was an attempt to deceive congress and the American people into believing we needed more anti-gun control laws.

B. Holder and Napolitano (and perhaps others) have lied to congress about their knowledge of and authorization of these programs. Obama has lied to the people (in a public interview) about the authorization of F&F.

C. Agents have been dismissed for being honest in their testimony before congress and two agents have been killed.

D. Obama appointed officials has obstructed justice in the congressional investigation and have tried to hide the actual facts from the start.




2. Negatory rubber ducky.

The two programs were NOT nearly identical.

Under 'wide receiver' suspects were arrested and prosecuted before any harm was done.

Under 'fast and furious' arms and ammunition were knowingly allowed to cross the border, many times under the objections of field agents who were denied warrants by the DOJ.

[therealUT]

Originally Posted by gsvol

NO, absolutly not, the only thing ridiculous is your question.

Reasons this is a scandal.

A. It was an attempt to deceive congress and the American people into believing we needed more anti-gun control laws.

B. Holder and Napolitano (and perhaps others) have lied to congress about their knowledge of and authorization of these programs. Obama has lied to the people (in a public interview) about the authorization of F&F.

C. Agents have been dismissed for being honest in their testimony before congress and two agents have been killed.

D. Obama appointed officials has obstructed justice in the congressional investigation and have tried to hide the actual facts from the start.

Did Ashcroft and Gonzales provide information to Congress on the inner workings of Wide Receiver?

Originally Posted by gsvol

2. Negatory rubber ducky.

The two programs were NOT nearly identical.

Under 'wide receiver' suspects were arrested and prosecuted before any harm was done.

Under 'fast and furious' arms and ammunition were knowingly allowed to cross the border, many times under the objections of field agents who were denied warrants by the DOJ.

If they were arrested before any harm was done, then how did over twenty assault rifles end up being recovered at violent crime scenes in Mexico?

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by therealUT

Did Ashcroft and Gonzales provide information to Congress on the inner workings of Wide Receiver?

If they were arrested before any harm was done, then how did over twenty assault rifles end up being recovered at violent crime scenes in Mexico?

You just keep pulling crap out of your arse don't you.

Where do you come up with the claim that Ashcroft and Gonzales had anything to do with any assault rifles crossing the border, dummie underground?

That was the purpose of wide receiver, to stop illegal arms trafficing.

Not to mention that Obama, Holder and company sponsored the transfer of something like six or seven thousand such arms being sold to criminals south of the border. In some cases they misused stimulus funds to buy the arms to begin with.

Issa to Holder: You can still avoid contempt if you give up Fast and Furious documents « » Print The Daily Caller

A spokeswoman for House oversight committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa told The Daily Caller that Attorney General Eric Holder could still avoid the contempt of Congress proceedings on the horizon — if he cooperates with the congressional subpoena he's thus far failed to comply with.

"The Justice Department can still avoid contempt," Issa spokeswoman Becca Watkins told TheDC. "They need to pledge their cooperation and stop stonewalling on critical documents outlined by the committee in the draft contempt report."

Watkins said those "critical documents" include "what high ranking officials knew about Fast and Furious and when they knew it, information about informants and their roles, and how the Justice Department changed its view from denying that gunwalking occurred to acknowledging that Fast and Furious was fundamentally flawed."

Holder has outright failed to comply with the subpoena Issa served him in October 2011 on Fast and Furious. That subpoena contains 22 parts, and Holder has failed to fulfill each and every one of those categories. For 13 of the categories, Holder has provided no documents whatsoever, and for the other nine categories, Holder remains far from compliant, as TheDC documented in full late last week.

assuming he doesn't produce the documents. Issa released the lengthy contempt of Congress citation draft last week to Democrats and Republicans on his committee, and Arizona Republican Rep. Paul Gosar is set to lead a "special order" on the House floor later this week. A special order is an official vehicle for House members to voice their concerns about Fast and Furious, the Department of Justice's stonewalling tactics and Holder's continued failure to comply with congressional subpoenas.
------------------------

Currently, 127 House members think Holder should resign or be fired over Fast and Furious, have expressed “no confidence” in him via a formal House resolution, or both. Three U.S. senators, two sitting governors and presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney have joined those House members in demanding Holder’s removal from office.