Afghanistan

#1
T

therealUT

Rational Thought Allowed?
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#1
Did ISAF forces really just engage Pakistani forces in Pakistan, killing 28 Pakistani Soldiers?

Did Pakistan respond by shutting off our logistics train from the Arabian Sea to Afghanistan?

Why are we still in Afghanistan?
 
#4
#4
therealUT said:
Did ISAF forces really just engage Pakistani forces in Pakistan, killing 28 Pakistani Soldiers?

Did Pakistan respond by shutting off our logistics train from the Arabian Sea to Afghanistan?

Why are we still in Afghanistan?
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I don't agree with it, but I think we're still there, because the Afgan Gov't will fall to the Taliban once we leave
 
#5
#5
vol_in_il said:
I don't agree with it, but I think we're still there, because the Afgan Gov't will fall to the Taliban once we leave
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I think it is safe to assume that Karzai's government will fall to the Taliban when we leave. That said, I still think we should get out of Afghanistan.
 
#6
#6
Should probably have a presence until there is some stability. If not, the situation will return to what it was before we went over.
 
#7
#7
NewToVolCountry said:
Should probably have a presence until there is some stability. If not, the situation will return to what it was before we went over.
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Afghanistan is what it has been for thousands of years: The Graveyard of Empires.

I could care less about stability in Afghanistan.
 
#8
#8
wonder if now would be a good time to strengthen our strategic relationship with India?
 
#9
#9
therealUT said:
Afghanistan is what it has been for thousands of years: The Graveyard of Empires.

I could care less about stability in Afghanistan.
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Couldn't.

And that kind of environment is where terrorism prospers. So we get that to look forward to again.
 
#10
#10
NewToVolCountry said:
Couldn't.

And that kind of environment is where terrorism prospers. So we get that to look forward to again.
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3,000 Americans killed on one day by individuals with box cutters versus 500 ISAF members killed per year (not to mention the 15,000 non-fatal combat injuries which have devasted the lives of Soldiers and Soldiers' families) (2009-2011) in order to attempt to stabilize that country (nevermind the $500B spent directly for that operation thus far).

I would rather take the chances with the terrorists.
 
#11
#11
The difference is the fight would be fought here, then.

You guys signed up to do what you do and you know the risks. That doesn't make it any less awful, but when innocent women and children are being killed on our own soil, I wonder if I really would want to take my chances with terrorists.
 
#12
#12
therealUT said:
3,000 Americans killed on one day by individuals with box cutters versus 500 ISAF members killed per year (not to mention the 15,000 non-fatal combat injuries which have devasted the lives of Soldiers and Soldiers' families) (2009-2011) in order to attempt to stabilize that country (nevermind the $500B spent directly for that operation thus far).

I would rather take the chances with the terrorists.
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In 2001 I'd have called you crazy. Now I'm inclined to agree.
 
#13
#13
NewToVolCountry said:
The difference is the fight would be fought here, then.

You guys signed up to do what you do and you know the risks. That doesn't make it any less awful, but when innocent women and children are being killed on our own soil, I wonder if I really would want to take my chances with terrorists.
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Why not just occasionally bomb the crap out of some terrorist training camps - let's make it an annual tradition.

What's Afghanistan gonna do about it?
 
#14
#14
NewToVolCountry said:
The difference is the fight would be fought here, then.

You guys signed up to do what you do and you know the risks. That doesn't make it any less awful, but when innocent women and children are being killed on our own soil, I wonder if I really would want to take my chances with terrorists.
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When I joined the Army on July 2, 2001, I did not sign up to fight for stability in Afghanistan; nor did I sign up to establish democracy in Iraq.

The servicemen and women who fight and die in Iraq and Afghanistan are no less innocent than the individuals that were killed in NYC, DC, and PA on September 11, 2001. Whether or not these servicemen and women know the risks does not make their lives any more or less valuable than the individuals who were killed on September 11, 2001. Whether or not these servicemen and women have chosen to obey orders and deploy to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq does not mean that the vast majority of them would not rather be back in America or that they agree with the mission.

They are there; they do their jobs; they wish they were home with their families.

If we did not have an all-volunteer force and any expeditionary force had to be raised through conscription, would you be willing to risk your own life or your son/daughter's life to fight for stability in Afghanistan?
 
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#15
#15
TRUT - when did you're view on the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan change (assuming they changed)?
 
#16
#16
volinbham said:
TRUT - when did you're view on the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan change (assuming they changed)?
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2009-2010 in Al Siniyah, Iraq. Part of it was sitting through council meetings and listening to the privileged in Iraq **** on everything we were trying to do for them. Part of it was reading Kant's Groundwork of the Metaphysic's of Morals while I was over there.

You cannot force individuals to change against their will and without a million troops on the ground, you cannot remove most of the lower level bureaucrats and local council members without completely destabilizing these nations. Unfortunately, it is these bureaucrats and council members who have money and influence; when they arrive to council meetings they want libraries and new civic buildings when plenty of families in the area do not have access to clean water, adequate housing, twenty-four hour electricity, good food, etc.
 
#17
#17
NewToVolCountry said:
The difference is the fight would be fought here, then.

You guys signed up to do what you do and you know the risks. That doesn't make it any less awful, but when innocent women and children are being killed on our own soil, I wonder if I really would want to take my chances with terrorists.
Click to expand...

The fight is already being fought here with greater daily restrictions and government observation with the excuse of "catching terrorists." What terrorist organization could sustain an attack on American soil? None. I doubt any country could sustain an attack here, either. Terrorists are hit-and-run. There would be no fight here, just a sucker-punch to the back of the head.
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
When I joined the Army on July 2, 2001, I did not sign up to fight for stability in Afghanistan; nor did I sign up to establish democracy in Iraq.

The servicemen and women who fight and die in Iraq and Afghanistan are no less innocent than the individuals that were killed in NYC, DC, and PA on September 11, 2001. Whether or not these servicemen and women know the risks does not make their lives any more or less valuable than the individuals who were killed on September 11, 2001. Whether or not these servicemen and women have chosen to obey orders and deploy to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq does not mean that the vast majority of them would not rather be back in America or that they agree with the mission.

They are there; they do their jobs; they wish they were home with their families.

If we did not have an all-volunteer force and any expeditionary force had to be raised through conscription, would you be willing to risk your own life or your son/daughter's life to fight for stability in Afghanistan?
Click to expand...

If I would have been of age when this war started you can bet your ass I would have been one of the first in line at the enlistment office.
 
#19
#19
VOLatile said:
The fight is already being fought here with greater daily restrictions and government observation with the excuse of "catching terrorists." What terrorist organization could sustain an attack on American soil? None. I doubt any country could sustain an attack here, either. Terrorists are hit-and-run. There would be no fight here, just a sucker-punch to the back of the head.
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Since we have gone over there, have we had a major attack on in North America?
 
#20
#20
NewToVolCountry said:
If I would have been of age when this war started you can bet your ass I would have been one of the first in line at the enlistment office.
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How old are you?

Nevermind. I found some of your posts which put you in college with a roommate who is a music major. I am going to assume that makes you at least 18 and not yet 35. So, the question is, since you still believe in the mission in Afghanistan, why are you not in the military right now?

How does it feel letting other individuals fight and die for something you believe in while you kick back in school?

"...bet your ass..." Right.

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html

Feel free to tell the recruiter you want to be an 11B; those are the Soldiers who do the most fighting and dying.
 
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#21
#21
I didn't turn 18 until I was well into my freshman year of college, 2 years ago. I don't feel too much guilt at all. I had some stuff going on at the time, and to be honest, I wasn't kicking back at school either.

Why do I have to enlist in the military to believe in a cause? How many soldiers fight even though they may not believe in a cause?

I recently considered joining because of how poorly I'm doing college, probably would have done well even, but am just too close to finishing my degrees to pursue that now.
 
#22
#22
NewToVolCountry said:
I didn't turn 18 until I was well into my freshman year of college, 2 years ago. I don't feel too much guilt at all. I had some stuff going on at the time, and to be honest, I wasn't kicking back at school either.

Why do I have to enlist in the military to believe in a cause? How many soldiers fight even though they may not believe in a cause?

I recently considered joining because of how poorly I'm doing college, probably would have done well even, but am just too close to finishing my degrees to pursue that now.
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It is obvious that you feel no guilt, no shame, and no duty to what you profess to believe. But, you are right, Servicemen and women signed up to face the risks so that you can hold your belief and support your congressmen in sending their asses back to Afghanistan over and over again.

"In truth, people can generally make time [and/or excuses] for what they choose to do; it is not really the time but the will that is lacking."
 
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#23
#23
One of my closets friends shipped out a month ago for his second 18th month tour with a year lay off in the states. Frackin crazy considering he is national guard
 
#24
#24
NewToVolCountry said:
I didn't turn 18 until I was well into my freshman year of college, 2 years ago. I don't feel too much guilt at all. I had some stuff going on at the time, and to be honest, I wasn't kicking back at school either.

Why do I have to enlist in the military to believe in a cause? How many soldiers fight even though they may not believe in a cause?

I recently considered joining because of how poorly I'm doing college, probably would have done well even, but am just too close to finishing my degrees to pursue that now.
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You can go to OCS or enlist with a degree.
 
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