T.S.A. At It Again

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

are you being forced to fly? The TSA isn't going to come to your house

No different than getting a pat down and bag search before a football game or concert.

[KiffinKiller]

The feigned outrage at the implementation of full body scans was the last straw for me.
"they can see me naked!" "ahhhh!"

who cares...its keeping you safe.

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by KiffinKiller

The feigned outrage at the implementation of full body scans was the last straw for me.
"they can see me naked!" "ahhhh!"

who cares...if you keep it tidy.

fyp

[rockytop9808]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

are you being forced to fly? The TSA isn't going to come to your house

No, they aren't. And I'm not being forced to fly anywhere. But they have increasingly been reaching into other methods of transportation, as well, and I'd say I have expectation of privacy when it comes to my genitals being scanned and/or groped. There's no probable cause to think I'm a terrorist because I'm getting on an airplane, or, occasionally, a train or bus. Besides, if you're someone who wants real security, the TSA is horribly ineffective.

All you have to do is remember the old Ben Franklin quote.

[utvolpj]

Originally Posted by rockytop9808

No, they aren't. And I'm not being forced to fly anywhere. But they have increasingly been reaching into other methods of transportation, as well, and I'd say I have expectation of privacy when it comes to my genitals being scanned and/or groped. There's no probable cause to think I'm a terrorist because I'm getting on an airplane, or, occasionally, a train or bus. Besides, if you're someone who wants real security, the TSA is horribly ineffective.

All you have to do is remember the old Ben Franklin quote.

I know the quote and it doesn't apply. You are choosing to submit to the searches by choosing to fly. You are giving up your right to privacy when you willingly submit to the rules around it. The TSA is not in your driveway so you are free to drive and avoid them. Of course you're giving away other rights by doing that so you may want to walk

[Jewbaccah]

It is has always been a superseding right of the state to protect the welfare of its citizen. They are not violating constitutional rights.

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

I know the quote and it doesn't apply. You are choosing to submit to the searches by choosing to fly. You are giving up your right to privacy when you willingly submit to the rules around it. The TSA is not in your driveway so you are free to drive and avoid them. Of course you're giving away other rights by doing that so you may want to walk

I disagree. This is akin to saying you are choosing to submit to unjustified search and seizure by choosing to go on living. You can play by their intrusive rules, or greatly inconvenience yourself. Government does not own the airlines. It does not own the skies. It does however own the roads, so I can understand the rules they enforce there.

[utvolpj]

there are laws against a citizen being subjected if they are "just living" right? and wouldn't that be unavoidable? If you choose to fly you choose to be searched or don't fly and you can easily avoid it. Pretty simple IMO

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

there are laws against a citizen being subjected if they are "just living" right and wouldn't that be unavoidable? If you choose to fly you choose to be searched or don't fly and avoid it. Pretty simple IMO

It's a hypothetical, so what I am saying is: what if there were no such thing as unlawful search and seizure? You could avoid unjustified search and seizure, but the alternative isn't feasible. If you choose to live, you choose to be searched.

Pretend the TSA has expanded to general security, so anytime you attend a football game, movie, concert, etc. you get searched by federal agents. No one is making you go to the movie. It's for your safety. Are you still cool with it?

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by nbakerld

I disagree. This is akin to saying you are choosing to submit to unjustified search and seizure by choosing to go on living. You can play by their intrusive rules, or greatly inconvenience yourself. Government does not own the airlines. It does not own the skies. It does however own the roads, so I can understand the rules they enforce there.

why do you let them check you for alcohol before going into Neyland?

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by volinbham

why do you let them check you for alcohol before going into Neyland?

It's their stadium, their rules. It's also not federal agents searching me for alcohol.

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by nbakerld

It's their stadium, their rules. It's also not federal agents searching me for alcohol.

so your beef is the government feeling you up but would be cool with airline employees doing it?

[utvolpj]

Originally Posted by nbakerld

It's a hypothetical, so what I am saying is: what if there were no such thing as unlawful search and seizure? You could avoid unjustified search and seizure, but the alternative isn't feasible. If you choose to live, you choose to be searched.

ummm ok?

Originally Posted by nbakerld

Pretend the TSA has expanded to general security, so anytime you attend a football game, movie, concert, etc. you get searched by federal agents. No one is making you go to the movie. It's for your safety. Are you still cool with it?

I submit to searches already for many of those things and know that going in. Why would I be against it now?

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by volinbham

so your beef is the government feeling you up but would be cool with airline employees doing it?

This is an agreement between me and the airline. If I don't like their security, I can go elsewhere.

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

ummm ok?

I submit to searches already for many of those things and know that going in. Why would I be against it now?

So federal agents search you when you go to concerts?

The whole point is where does government intrusion stop? It's not about being searched. It's about the nature of their power, and how they exercise it. Going to a concert and showing their security the inside of my backpack is a lot different from federal agents making me go through a full-body scanner to see The White Stripes. To me it's no different being forced to go through a full-body scanner so that I can go visit Grandma. They forcefully take my money from me and use it to inconvenience me. Airlines could do security cheaper, better, and with the customer's comfort in mind. The TSA doesn't have an incentive to ensure any of that.