Johnson in same company as Petty/Earnhardt?

[SyxxSynse]

I thought this would be a good discussion.

If Jimmie Johnson wins his fifth Cup Series title this year, should people begin to put his name in with the likes of Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt in the argument as to who is the best and most successful driver in NASCAR history?

[rbroyles]

Originally Posted by TheSyxxSynse

I thought this would be a good discussion.

If Jimmie Johnson wins his fifth Cup Series title this year, should people begin to put his name in with the likes of Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt in the argument as to who is the best and most successful driver in NASCAR history?

Petty=7 Championships
Earnhardt=7 Championships
Johnson=5 Championships (IF he wins)

7>5

Any other questions?

[SyxxSynse]

I guess I should have been more specific. I'm talking about comparing things like driver skill, difficulty to win in each drivers era, and other variables. Not just solely on the number of championships each has won.

[rbroyles]

Originally Posted by TheSyxxSynse

I guess I should have been more specific. I'm talking about comparing things like driver skill, difficulty to win in each drivers era, and other variables. Not just solely on the number of championships each has won.

No not necessary, I still say I need to see how he does in the long haul of 15-20 years. His winning four in a row and four in a relative short time puts him in an elite class, but I'm not quite ready to elevate him to the level of Petty & Earnhardt, or Gordon yet.

[TennesseeFan07]

We can't accurately tell until his career is over.

[SyxxSynse]

Originally Posted by rbroyles

No not necessary, I still say I need to see how he does in the long haul of 15-20 years. His winning four in a row and four in a relative short time puts him in an elite class, but I'm not quite ready to elevate him to the level of Petty & Earnhardt, or Gordon yet.

I'm not either. But you know if he should win a fifth title (either this year or whenever) people will at least begin to mention his name alongside the two greatest.

[rbroyles]

Well there are probably people who still think UT Football is doing ok. I wouldn't put Johnson up that high yet even with a fifth. I would agree he is one of the top 10 drivers if he does win a fifth. He obviously is way above average talent wise.

[VOLNBAMA]

hard to compare eras. how many championships would Johnson have under the old system?

[SyxxSynse]

Originally Posted by VOLNBAMA

hard to compare eras. how many championships would Johnson have under the old system?

Two.

Under the old system in Johnson's championship seasons:

2006: Johnson wins title by 4 points over Matt Kenseth
2007: Johnson finishes 2nd, -353 points behind Jeff Gordon
2008: Johnson finishes 2nd, -16 points behind Carl Edwards
2009: Johnson wins title by 66 points over Jeff Gordon

The Chase is the main reason why I can't put him in the same class as Petty and Earnhardt. I believe to be champion, a driver needs to be the most consistent ALL year long. Johnson will win a few races in the regular season, but will cruise alot of the way, just to make sure he makes The Chase. When the final ten races start, he turns it on. Granted, all the other drivers have to find a way to beat him in those ten races, but doing just enough to "make the playoffs" is not how it should be done.

[ptclaus98]

Yeah, but if you change the system the 48 team would still figure out how to exploit any advantage to the fullest. It's not as simple as saying, "well the Chase is the only reason he's won 4 in a row." They set their objectives toward winning the championship. They hit those objectives. Just because you move the mark doesn't mean that preparation and that focus doesn't stay the same.



They're a damn good race team beating a ton of other damn good race teams.

[volinbham]

I think Petty and Earnhardt are viewed as great drivers. Johnson is part of a great team.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by volinbham

I think Petty and Earnhardt are viewed as great drivers. Johnson is part of a great team.

I can go with that, but you could say that for people all around motorsport in this day and age.

[615 Vol]

Originally Posted by TheSyxxSynse

Two.

Under the old system in Johnson's championship seasons:

2006: Johnson wins title by 4 points over Matt Kenseth
2007: Johnson finishes 2nd, -353 points behind Jeff Gordon
2008: Johnson finishes 2nd, -16 points behind Carl Edwards
2009: Johnson wins title by 66 points over Jeff Gordon

The Chase is the main reason why I can't put him in the same class as Petty and Earnhardt. I believe to be champion, a driver needs to be the most consistent ALL year long. Johnson will win a few races in the regular season, but will cruise alot of the way, just to make sure he makes The Chase. When the final ten races start, he turns it on. Granted, all the other drivers have to find a way to beat him in those ten races, but doing just enough to "make the playoffs" is not how it should be done.

I think you can only compare them against their own competition. There is no way of knowing how Johnson's team would have done given a different format. They may have had more points leading into the last 10 races if the chase didn't exist.

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

I can go with that, but you could say that for people all around motorsport in this day and age.

I agree but Johnson doesn't come across as the "best driver" out there. His team is the best team though.

Compare that with Tony Stewart who may be perceived as a better driver but the driver/team combo isn't as potent.

Johnson is a better driver than he's perceived to be IMHO.

[dan4vols]

Originally Posted by volinbham

I agree but Johnson doesn't come across as the "best driver" out there. His team is the best team though.

Compare that with Tony Stewart who may be perceived as a better driver but the driver/team combo isn't as potent.

Johnson is a better driver than he's perceived to be IMHO.

Now that you put it like that I must agree you have a solid point. Looking back at some of his underwhelming performances you can clearly argue it was driver error most times.