The most overrated position in sports

[Vercingetorix]

Caple: The most overrated position in sports - ESPN Page 2

An article from last year which I really, really wish Bobby Cox would read.

[nickknx865]

Good read. I like how one of the closers took a nap before he was needed.

Maybe I need to consider a career as a ML closer.

[wounded mullet]

Kenny Powers thinks this article is full of sh#t...

[GAVol]

I think a change that would greatly improve the save statistic is instead of labeling a 3 run lead to start an inning a save situation, just change it to "tying run at the plate" no matter when a pitcher enters the game.

What needs to happen is for the "Hold" to become more prominent. IMO, the 7th and 8th inning guys are as underrated as the 9th inning guys are overrated.

[JTrainDavis]

Originally Posted by GAVol

I think a change that would greatly improve the save statistic is instead of labeling a 3 run lead to start an inning a save situation, just change it to "tying run at the plate" no matter when a pitcher enters the game.

What needs to happen is for the "Hold" to become more prominent. IMO, the 7th and 8th inning guys are as underrated as the 9th inning guys are overrated.

I don't like any of the relief stats, a pitcher can be mediocre and pile up saves and holds.

I like the save concept you put put there, the qualifications now are dumb, any pitcher who cannot pitch an inning without blowing a 3 run lead more often than not, should not be in the league.

[Vercingetorix]

Maybe the thing to do is to combine saves and holds into one stat and give it out to anybody who enters a close game with a lead or tie and leaves without giving up the lead or falling behind, regardless of what inning it is. There's nothing magical about the ninth inning.

A counting stat like that would still fuel the iron-clad one-inning-per-pitcher trend, which I think is another misuse of resources, but at least managers would be more inclined to bring their best relievers in whenever the game is on the line instead of saving them for some hypothetical relief situation that never ends up happening.

[JTrainDavis]

The fact that a reliever can come into the game with a 3 run lead, get a k, and then walk 5 straight, and still get a 'hold' if the next guy bails him out, is stupid. It's a make believe stat from SABR that is generally useless, except for contract negotiations, of course. The stat driven trend in baseball is ridiculous.

IMHO, the only ones that matter are WHIP+ and OAV+

the + being in relation to the league average for a given season.

[GAVol]

WHIP is one of the most telling stats there is . . . yet nobody knows what the heck it is.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by JTrainDavis

The fact that a reliever can come into the game with a 3 run lead, get a k, and then walk 5 straight, and still get a 'hold' if the next guy bails him out, is stupid. It's a make believe stat from SABR that is generally useless, except for contract negotiations, of course. The stat driven trend in baseball is ridiculous.

IMHO, the only ones that matter are WHIP+ and OAV+

the + being in relation to the league average for a given season.

If we're going to count wins and losses for pitchers, I've got no problem crediting a reliever with a "hold" if he does the job, regardless of how well he actually pitches. Obviously the way it's drawn up right now could use some tinkering, but I don't have a problem with the general principle.

WHIP and OAV+ basically measure the same thing. If I only get two pitching stats, I want WHIP and ERA+.

[JTrainDavis]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

If we're going to count wins and losses for pitchers, I've got no problem crediting a reliever with a "hold" if he does the job, regardless of how well he actually pitches. Obviously the way it's drawn up right now could use some tinkering, but I don't have a problem with the general principle.

WHIP and OAV+ basically measure the same thing. If I only get two pitching stats, I want WHIP and ERA+.

true, those are telling numbers, though im becoming a sucker for BABIP+

[bburger991]

I do like BABIP, just because it lets you know what the flukes are. I'd go with ERA+ and WHIP if I only got 2 stats to pick though.

[JTrainDavis]

Lets get some Silver King these days, 66 games, 585.2IP, 45 wins, 1.64 ERA.....the CG is a ghost now, over the last 20 years it doesnt matter anymore if a starter is on it, 2 run lead after 7 its on to the pen.

[JTrainDavis]

Originally Posted by bburger991

I do like BABIP, just because it lets you know what the flukes are. I'd go with ERA+ and WHIP if I only got 2 stats to pick though.

OAV+ , BB/9+, K/9+, WHIP/9+, normalized stats rule....leads only to Koufax haha.

[wounded mullet]

You know the closer role may be overrated but i would go on record and say that middle relief is the most important part of a team these days.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by wounded mullet

You know the closer role may be overrated but i would go on record and say that middle relief is the most important part of a team these days.

It doesn't matter how good middle relief is if your stating pitching sucks. The best middle-relief corps in baseball isn't going to hold up if they've got to come in the 5th or 6th inning every night because the starters can't get the job done. And then you've got nothing.

Starting pitching and power hitting. Those are the cornerstones.