Joe Torre

Fine Vol · 07-23-2008, 03:06 PM

Do you feel the loss of JT has helped or hurt the Yanks this year. Same question for Dogers.

kev20 · 07-23-2008, 04:28 PM

All I know is, I wish he was still with the Yanks!

Vercingetorix · 07-23-2008, 04:29 PM

Irrelevant. I don't know whether there are any new clubhouse attendants in Yankee or Dodger stadium this year, but they matter about as much as Torre does.

**GAVol** · 07-23-2008, 04:32 PM

I disagree. The guy at the top is still important if for no other reason than the tone that he sets.

Vercingetorix · 07-23-2008, 04:43 PM

I was being a little tongue in cheek, but setting the tone is almost _all_ the manager does. His job is basically to be a kindergarten teacher -- keep everyone positive and make sure everyone's getting along well enough. From a baseball standpoint, the manager doesn't usually matter. You might as well hire somebody like Anthony Robbins or Oprah or some other self-help guy as a former baseball player.

There are a few rare exceptions. Billy Martin is an example of a guy who had a noticeable impact from a baseball standpoint, but of course he was terrible at clubhouse management. Dick Williams was about the same. Most of the time, though, the manager doesn't really make any difference unless he's terrible.

**GAVol** · 07-23-2008, 04:45 PM

I still think you are minimizing the tactical role of a manager; especially in the National League.

VOLNBAMA · 07-23-2008, 04:46 PM

like Dusty.

i'm talking to vercingetorix

Vercingetorix · 07-23-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAVol

I still think you are minimizing the tactical role of a manager; especially in the National League.

The range of tactical decisions that a manager has to make is so small that I just don't see it as all that important. Bunt for the pitcher? Play the infield in? Pitch out? Compare the range of these decisions with what, say, an NFL defensive coordinator has to deal with. I just don't see how any special expertise is required to handle most of the tactical decisions that a manager makes.

As an example, I think Bobby Cox is, if anything, probably a below-average on-the-field manager. But I regard him as a great manager anyway because he's the best at clubhouse management, which is the most important part of his job.

VOLinthaATL · 07-24-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

The range of tactical decisions that a manager has to make is so small that I just don't see it as all that important. Bunt for the pitcher? Play the infield in? Pitch out? Compare the range of these decisions with what, say, an NFL defensive coordinator has to deal with. I just don't see how any special expertise is required to handle most of the tactical decisions that a manager makes.

As an example, I think Bobby Cox is, if anything, probably a below-average on-the-field manager. But I regard him as a great manager anyway because he's the best at clubhouse management, which is the most important part of his job.

I am not discounting your opinion because it's your opinion and that's fine but did you ever play baseball?

Vercingetorix · 07-24-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOLinthaATL

I am not discounting your opinion because it's your opinion and that's fine but did you ever play baseball?

Not past high school, and not very long then. By the time we figured out that I was having vision problems and it wasn't necessarily just that I couldn't hit a baseball anymore, it was too late to get going again.

So. What kind of insider baseball stuff that I missed out on makes it so complicated and difficult for a manager to decide whether to pinch-hit for his starter in the 6th inning? When to bring the infield in? When to pitch out? This is not rocket science stuff. A high school football coach has to deal with more complicated tactical decisions than a major-league baseball manager.

VOLinthaATL · 07-24-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Not past high school, and not very long then. By the time we figured out that I was having vision problems and it wasn't necessarily just that I couldn't hit a baseball anymore, it was too late to get going again.

So. What kind of insider baseball stuff that I missed out on makes it so complicated and difficult for a manager to decide whether to pinch-hit for his starter in the 6th inning? When to bring the infield in? When to pitch out? This is not rocket science stuff. A high school football coach has to deal with more complicated tactical decisions than a major-league baseball manager.

Maybe an American League manager. American League baseball is not real baseball. You are correct, it takes almost every element of managing out of the game due to the DH.

Vercingetorix · 07-24-2008, 01:13 PM

Managing in the NL is more complicated, sure. (Agreed completely about the AL, by the way.) But my 10-year-old nephew understands how to make a double-switch. Tactical decisions in the NL are important, and it's important for a manger to get them right most of the time, but they're not that complicated.