Dumb baseball questions.

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by OrangeWilly

This is a weird rule to me, but I understand why it is the way it is.

When the pitcher makes a fielding or throwing error which results in un-earned runs for himself.

I understand that when the ball leaves the pitchers hand he becomes the 9th fielder...but it just would seem to me that if the pitcher is the one that commits the error then the runs should be charged to him as earned runs since he had control of the play in question.

Any thoughts on this?

I've always wondered about that and something along those lines happened at the game I worked the press box for tonight: We had an E5 on a popup with two outs that scored a run and left the bases loaded. The pitcher then walked in run #2. I think since he walked the guy he should be charged with an earned run regardless of the error. But then giving up a hit is the same as a a walk, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[OrangeWilly]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

I've always wondered about that and something along those lines happened at the game I worked the press box for tonight: We had an E5 on a popup with two outs that scored a run and left the bases loaded. The pitcher then walked in run #2. I think since he walked the guy he should be charged with an earned run regardless of the error. But then giving up a hit is the same as a a walk, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Yeah, I can see in this case why the run is unearned.

When I was learning how to score I was always taught to reconstruct the inning by taking the error out or by counting it as an out....In this case that would have been the 3rd out of the inning so I can understand why it is unearned to the pitcher regardless of what happened after the fact....He should have been out of the inning.

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by OrangeWilly

Yeah, I can see in this case why the run is unearned.

When I was learning how to score I was always taught to reconstruct the inning by taking the error out or by counting it as an out....In this case that would have been the 3rd out of the inning so I can understand why it is unearned to the pitcher regardless of what happened after the fact....He should have been out of the inning.

under the rules of baseball, I definitely understand that it is unearned.I just think if the pitcher gave up a walk, it's all on him. But that's just me.

[OrangeWilly]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

under the rules of baseball, I definitely understand that it is unearned.I just think if the pitcher gave up a walk, it's all on him. But that's just me.

I hear you....

My personal favorite baseball rule is the "team unearned run".

[doozer]

so, you have 2 outs with a runner on first via basehit. ball is hit to second baseman who boots it or makes an errant throw.

the bases then become loaded. the batter hits a grand slam. the pitcher is only charged for one earned run?

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by doozer

so, you have 2 outs with a runner on first via basehit. ball is hit to second baseman who boots it or makes an errant throw.

the bases then become loaded. the batter hits a grand slam. the pitcher is only charged for one earned run?

based on the facts I'm given, I would say yes because if you reconstruct the inning and count the E4 as the third out, all the runners that came to the plate after the E4 plus the batter involved in the E4 are unearned. Only exception I can think of would be if it was going to be an obvious infield single before the throw or without the 2B booting it.

[doozer]

here's why i ask:

MLB - Seattle Mariners/New York Mets Box Score Monday June 23, 2008 - Yahoo! Sports

Johan Santana was only charged for one earned run despite giving up a grand slam.

[doozer]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

based on the facts I'm given, I would say yes because if you reconstruct the inning and count the E4 as the third out, all the runners that came to the plate after the E4 plus the batter involved in the E4 are unearned. Only exception I can think of would be if it was going to be an obvious infield single before the throw or without the 2B booting it.

that box score above makes sense now. interesting because i never knew that.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

i just knew that would be a subject you would love to chime in on.

I think it goes beyond just the bench managers and coaches and since the "invention of the closer", the closer only feels comfortable in those end of game, pick up the save situations. I'm not a fan of how it's done either, it just is what it is.

The closers only feel comfortable in those situations because that's the only situation they ever pitch in now. Gone are the two- or three-inning Goose Gossage-style saves that the statistic was originally designed to capture; at some point, the entire job of the closer changed because of the statistic. The tail wagging the dog, so to speak.

Consider Bruce Sutter's line from 1979, when he won the Cy Young as a relief pitcher: 62 G, 102 IP, 37 SV. Now look at last year's line for Jose Valverde, who led the NL in saves: 65 G, 64 1/3 IP, 47 SV. Valverde had more saves, which is the modern definition of Closer Success, but look at the innings pitched. Which one helped his team out more?

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by doozer

that box score above makes sense now. interesting because i never knew that.

it actually makes less sense to me, because Beltre and Clement were on base before the error. With the home run, both runners would have advanced home regardless of the error. Now i'm perplexed.

[doozer]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

it actually makes less sense to me, because Beltre and Clement were on base before the error. With the home run, both runners would have advanced home regardless of the error. Now i'm perplexed.

but the error occurred with two outs. therefore, had Wright not done whatever he did to blow the play, the inning would have been over.

he should have been charged with 2 runs, but only got 1.

[doozer]

upon second look, i'm just as confused as you are.

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by doozer

but the error occurred with two outs. therefore, had Wright not done whatever he did to blow the play, the inning would have been over.

he should have been charged with 2 runs, but only got 1.

he shouldn't have been charged for any of them and wasn't. The Wright error makes all runs unearned and the earned run came in the fifth when Bloomquist scored. That makes sense now. Counting Wright's error as an out, the inning is over.

[OrangeWilly]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

it actually makes less sense to me, because Beltre and Clement were on base before the error. With the home run, both runners would have advanced home regardless of the error. Now i'm perplexed.

There were two out when the error was committed therefor anything that happened after that point would have resulted in the runs being unearned....All the runs that scored in that inning were unearned because the pitcher should have been out of the inning. The batter that hit the HR should have never gotten to the plate.

Edit: saw where you figured it out.

[doozer]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

he shouldn't have been charged for any of them and wasn't. The Wright error makes all runs unearned and the earned run came in the fifth when Bloomquist scored. That makes sense now.

ah, yeah, i had just noticed that too. silly of me to overlook that twice.