Atlanta Braves Discussion

[volsforever27]

Originally Posted by crazyguy

in david justice we trust.

Sid! Sid!

[crazyguy]

Originally Posted by volsforever27

I clearly remember being a kid and other kids telling me "All they have is Dale Murphy!".

haha, he was my hero back then...

[GAVol]

Originally Posted by crazyguy

I think it's more of the latter. You can still add pieces to a solid older core...you can't let your team fall apart and then hope to add a piece to make everything happy again.

The thing is that during the 90s there were always guys being brought in and signed like McGriff, Galarraga, Lofton and Maddux. Even guys like Sheffield, Jordan and Ortiz kept the run going. The past 2-3 years it's been economical guys like Kotsay, John Thompson and even Raul Mondesi.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

I'm probably a little biased from the heavy dosage of AL games I watch, but I still believe there is a large difference in the AL teams vs NL teams. You could win the NL East and still be a long way from toppling the top 3-4 teams in the AL. Of course, two-three years down the road that could be different. The Red Sox are slowly getting old. Really old. The Yankees pitching might be disastrous by then if they don't pick up some good youngsters, the AL Central could just wipe itself out and all you have left is what Billy Beane might accomplish with the A's (but that's a big might), the Angels should still be clinging to being really good and whatever becomes of the Tampa Bay (Devil) Rays.

The NL has won 3 out of the last 7 World Series. A short series in baseball is mostly a crapshoot. You play to get in and you take your chances.

Plus the meme that there's an big gap between the leagues is misguided, IMO. It's based on A) the dominance of the AL in the all-star game, which is an exhibition, and B) the comparative records of the leagues in interleague play, which structurally favors the AL because of the DH. (I.e., every AL team has a DH on the roster, but when an NL team has to play a DH game, they have to let some jackass like Greg Norton DH. The AL can play the NL's game, but most NL teams are giving up an out when they have to play in an AL park.)

[crazyguy]

Originally Posted by volsforever27

Sid! Sid!

wow, did you just reference sid bream? well played my friend...well played.

[crazyguy]

Originally Posted by GAVol

The thing is that during the 90s there were always guys being brought in and signed like McGriff, Galarraga, Lofton and Maddux. Even guys like Sheffield, Jordan and Ortiz kept the run going. The past 2-3 years it's been economical guys like Kotsay, John Thompson and even Raul Mondesi.

There was a definite shift from getting a listers to also rans. Was anyone else really surprised when the braves pulled the ticket on edgar?

[volfanbill]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

The NL has won 3 out of the last 7 World Series. A short series in baseball is mostly a crapshoot. You play to get in and you take your chances.

you could spin that to say the AL has won 3 of the last four and four of the last six though.

[volsforever27]

Originally Posted by crazyguy

wow, did you just reference sid bream? well played my friend...well played.

Man, I was 15 and had a shirt with the front of the AJC and that pic with the caption of "Oh Yes!"

I was sick with food poisoning that night; I remember the game well.

[VOLNBAMA]

It turns out that Jair Jurrjens is also a Boras client.

[crazyguy]

Originally Posted by VOLNBAMA

It turns out that Jair Jurrjens is also a Boras client.

now that is some crappy news.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by GAVol

How much of this is due to letting the core of the team get too old and how much is it a byproduct of corporate management pulling the payroll down before selling to another corporate entity?

I remember sitting out in right field with the wife about 10 years ago talking about what was going to happen when the Big Three got old, speculating about whether they were just going to start sucking or whether they'd be able to transition into another team. The AOL-TW merger had not yet happened, so that wasn't part of the equation yet. I remember saying something along the lines of, "It's going to be tough, but the Braves are one of the top payroll teams in baseball, so as long as they're able to avoid being so sentimental about the Big Three that they overpay to keep them, they should be able to redeploy that salary into new talent. And the Braves have been savvy enough about new player acquisition that I'm optimistic they'll be able to do it." It hasn't exactly worked out that way.

The killer was the AOL freeze on the payroll (which Liberty pledged to change, but which hasn't actually happened). The Braves have slid from being one of the top payrolls to being right in the middle. I'm convinced that's most of what happened. AOL froze the payroll while the Braves had half of that money eaten up by Smoltz, Hampton, Chipper, and Andruw. Which leads to a series of short-term solutions, which leads eventually to the bottom falling out of it.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by volfanbill

you could spin that to say the AL has won 3 of the last four and four of the last six though.

I'm not arguing that the NL is every bit as good as the AL; I'm just saying that the difference is not so stark that an NL team should base their moves on whether they can beat all those scary AL teams over there. The Cardinals were barely over .500 in 2006, but they won the whole thing. The Rockies were probably the worst NL playoff team last year, but they made it to the WS. Like everything about baseball, there's a big chunk of the random associated with the baseball playoffs.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by VOLNBAMA

It turns out that Jair Jurrjens is also a Boras client.

I'm sick of the Braves not being willing to dirty their hands and deal with Boras. Maybe he sucks, but he does the job well enough for his clients that top players flock to him. I don't care how much he offends John Schuerholz; as long as the Braves aren't willing to grit their teeth and deal with Boras, they're at a competitive disadvantage.

[VOLNBAMA]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

I'm sick of the Braves not being willing to dirty their hands and deal with Boras. Maybe he sucks, but he does the job well enough for his clients that top players flock to him. I don't care how much he offends John Schuerholz; as long as the Braves aren't willing to grit their teeth and deal with Boras, they're at a competitive disadvantage.

Maybe Wren will be different than JS.

[VOLNBAMA]

Texas fans said that Tex was a cancer in the clubhouse. Maybe he was that way with the Braves. We did lose more games than we won with him here.