Crime and the United States

#954
#954
hog88 said:
We should be doing away with the death penalty, not expanding the crimes it applies to.
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You have a good point about errors in the judicial system mean innocent people have been and will be murdered by the state for crimes they didn't commit.
Do you also feel death penalty is not appropriate for a criminal caught "red handed" (like video evidence) doing something despicable?
 
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#955
#955
McDad said:
You have a good point about errors in the judicial system mean innocent people have been and will be murdered by the state for crimes they didn't commit.
Do you also feel death penalty is not appropriate for a criminal caught "red handed" (like video evidence) doing something despicable?
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Yes, the death penalty should be done away with completely. There is no absolute method for determining guilt and in the absence of that the state should not be killing anyone.
 
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#956
#956
hog88 said:
Yes, the death penalty should be done away with completely. There is no absolute method for determining guilt and in the absence of that the state should not be killing anyone.
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how would a "red handed" situation not be an absolute method for determining guilt in your opinion?
 
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#957
#957
McDad said:
how would a "red handed" situation not be an absolute method for determining guilt in your opinion?
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Eye witness testimony is often wrong. Video can be manipulated.

What would you consider "red handed"? How many hours/days of video or eye witness prior to the event would be needed in order to get all of the perspective for a "red handed" capital case?
 
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#958
#958
hog88 said:
Eye witness testimony is often wrong. Video can be manipulated.

What would you consider "red handed"? How many hours/days of video or eye witness prior to the event would be needed in order to get all of the perspective for a "red handed" capital case?
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I don't know. Haven't thought about it before. Lemme contemplate.
 
#960
#960
hog88 said:
Eye witness testimony is often wrong. Video can be manipulated.

What would you consider "red handed"? How many hours/days of video or eye witness prior to the event would be needed in order to get all of the perspective for a "red handed" capital case?
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current thoughts are trending like this...irrefutable evidence from 3 independent sources should be adequate to establish guilt. Ex. Robber kills 4 employees at close. 5th employee survives and can positively ID. Plus store video showing event and clear pic of face, LEO arrives and has body cam footage and arrests the person still in the store.
 
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#961
#961
hog88 said:
It's a difficult question for me. I don't have a problem killing those needing to be killed but my distrust of the state and judicial system as a whole has led me to the belief that we should end capital punishment.
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It is difficult. If OJ can go free, we have to admit innocent people are convicted. Infinitesimal likelihood of errors only going one way.
 
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#962
#962
McDad said:
current thoughts are trending like this...irrefutable evidence from 3 independent sources should be adequate to establish guilt. Ex. Robber kills 4 employees at close. 5th employee survives and can positively ID. Plus store video showing event and clear pic of face, LEO arrives and has body cam footage and arrests the person still in the store.
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Maybe but those would be so few and far between I just don't see the need to keep it as an option.
 
#965
#965
hog88 said:
Yes but I don't see why the state killing people is necessary. It hasn't worked as a deterrent yet.
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Consequences of crime are about punishment. With some crimes, we hope to rehabilitate (or we should) and release the person back into society. With other crimes, no rehabilitation is offered (like life in prison). Deterrence has a significant amount of psychology associated with it. Not surprising we do not conduct punishments in a way which enhances deterrence.
Some crimes rise to the level of ultimate punishment, in my opinion. Administering that in a way where there is no possibility of error is complicated.
 
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#966
#966
hog88 said:
Yes but I don't see why the state killing people is necessary. It hasn't worked as a deterrent yet.
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By the way, I started thinking about this a few days ago when McRib was watching a show called "i survived". The brutality, disregard for others, and sickening things some do to others is nauseating.
 
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#967
#967
McDad said:
Consequences of crime are about punishment. With some crimes, we hope to rehabilitate (or we should) and release the person back into society. With other crimes, no rehabilitation is offered (like life in prison). Deterrence has a significant amount of psychology associated with it. Not surprising we do not conduct punishments in a way which enhances deterrence.
Some crimes rise to the level of ultimate punishment, in my opinion. Administering that in a way where there is no possibility of error is complicated.
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As for a deterrence, I've said before that if we are going to keep the death penalty all executions should be done by hanging and in public. Televise them.

As for punishment, is killing someone humanly (as we try to do) more of a punishment than life in prison?
 
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#968
#968
hog88 said:
As for a deterrence, I've said before that if we are going to keep the death penalty all executions should be done by hanging and in public. Televise them.

As for punishment, is killing someone humanly (as we try to do) more of a punishment than life in prison?
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I don't think I am capable of answering that question. I think of life as a precious gift. So, for me the death penalty is the ultimate way to punish because we are removing the most precious thing a person has. But not everyone (including brutal criminals) feel that way. I suspect some of those would rather die than spend life in prison. Like I said earlier, not an easy issue to consider.
 
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#973
#973
whodeycin85 said:
If laws are not enforced fairly it does.
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No, “everything” doesn’t, and that’s also a strange response to someone pointing out how this could result in an innocent person being killed. “Oh well, you can never really be certain but might as well kill them anyway”
 
#974
#974
NashVol11 said:
No, “everything” doesn’t, and that’s also a strange response to someone pointing out how this could result in an innocent person being killed. “Oh well, you can never really be certain but might as well kill them anyway”
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There are tons of examples of killers released from jail..those are essentially states sanctioned murders.
 
#975
#975
whodeycin85 said:
Why even try to enforce laws then..everything is faulty and can be manipulated....
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That's a pretty radical take.

It's simple IMO, if an innocent person is wrongly convicted and sentenced to prison there is a chance at correcting that mistake. An innocent person is convicted and put to death there is no righting that wrong.
 
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