This describes what has happened to college football perfectly.

#277
#277
Just reading about a UF defensive back in the portal. He originally signed with UGA, transferred to UF, then left UF and committed to Louisville... for a week. Then decommitted from there and signed to Penn State.

That's four schools, with a season to go.
 
#278
#278
lawgator1 said:
Just reading about a UF defensive back in the portal. He originally signed with UGA, transferred to UF, then left UF and committed to Louisville... for a week. Then decommitted from there and signed to Penn State.

That's four schools, with a season to go.
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This is why I think, far more than the NIL money, the unrestricted portal is the biggest problem. Its one thing to pay the kids and use that to attract them but once there, they stay there. Its quite another when there is little friction on leaving - it breeds a mercenary mentality.
 
#279
#279
Gandalf said:
This is why I think, far more than the NIL money, the unrestricted portal is the biggest problem. Its one thing to pay the kids and use that to attract them but once there, they stay there. Its quite another when there is little friction on leaving - it breeds a mercenary mentality.
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As soon as you make this a thing for coaches, administrators, etc. then you may have a point. No one cared until the players themselves started benefiting.
 
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#280
#280
BearCat204 said:
As soon as you make this a thing for coaches, administrators, etc. then you may have a point. No one cared until the players themselves started benefiting.
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Well the problem is, most kids are projects, not instant plug n play. That means most will need to ride the pine for a bit while the school invests time into them on the hope they make the transition to become a producer. That requires commitment from the school and from the player. While the NIL warps the recruiting process, the unlimited portal destroys the commitment mentality. That means many players who may have made the turn that third or fourth year (or fifth) might jump ship and never get a degree and get precious little money in NIL. Then the VFL type programs have little obligation to them either. Since MOST players will never even sniff pro ball of any kind, how does this serve them?

This isnt a coaches vs players economic model. The business model has to work for the system itself to keep on churning. I think the mercenary mentality is a bigger problem long term than the money but I also think if players need to commit to the school, the school needs to commit to them.
 
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#281
#281
Gandalf said:
Well the problem is, most kids are projects, not instant plug n play. That means most will need to ride the pine for a bit while the school invests time into them on the hope they make the transition to become a producer. That requires commitment from the school and from the player. While the NIL warps the recruiting process, the unlimited portal destroys the commitment mentality. That means many players who may have made the turn that third or fourth year (or fifth) might jump ship and never get a degree and get precious little money in NIL. Then the VFL type programs have little obligation to them either. Since MOST players will never even sniff pro ball of any kind, how does this serve them?

This isnt a coaches vs players economic model. The business model has to work for the system itself to keep on churning. I think the mercenary mentality is a bigger problem long term than the money but I also think if players need to commit to the school, the school needs to commit to them.
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But schools never have committed to players. No more than a player transferring after a year now. Don’t even know what your first paragraph has to do with players having the right to move around just as much as coaches or administrators have been for decades.
 
#282
#282
VolTull said:
Never dipped, can't comment. "I can’t quit watching football" is true only if you believe it to be so. Once you examine that belief, and find it no longer useful, you can change it with no sweat.
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The networks and the schools are just playing the fans, because the fans are crazy and love the sport--in the same way that the NFL, MLB and Fifa exploit their crazy fans. They keep adding games, expanding playoffs--making it easier for lesser teams to get into playoffs--amping up the hype---all to suck more and more money out of fans via, mostly, TV ratings and attendance.

I was a student-athlete on scholarship at UT, lived at Gibbs, and we all felt we were the luckiest people on campus--because we were. And it wasn't just the scholarship, there were lots of other perks. No players in any sport had the thought--gee, my free education, meals, housing, kits, girls, concerts, police giving us a pass on various things---is nice but we really should be getting paid too! I think that just started, frankly, with black activists who looked at the black players on the football and basketball teams, saw the money the football program was bringing, and, always on the lookout for injustice (real or, in this case, imagined), started clamoring for cash for players. You NEVER hear the activists talk about the benefit of a free college education and all that goes with it---because free cash is a bigger priority than a free education. One is cash in the pocket while the other isn't--it's a cost that's been covered for you. I don't mean to make this too racial--but I believe this is how the whole pay the players movement got started, and it's gained momentum as the social justice movement has gained momentum. Plus, we're just turning kids who should be focused on academics--because 90+ percent of them are not going to play pro football or basketball--into greedy mercenaries. Bribing kids to sign with your school? Trying to outbid other schools? Tampering--which is rampant. Transfers--rampant and sometimes/often motivated by money? Seriously, this is what we want college athletics to become? The more ridiculous major-college football becomes, the more obvious it becomes that the Ivy League has been right about college athletics all along. It's chosen not to dirty itself too much with all the seedy commercialism that we see now.

The notion that football players should be paid is nothing more than public perception. The sport has been on TV for 50 years--and now suddenly people are saying, "oh, you gotta pay the players." Really? Nothing has changed except the money has gotten bigger. I don't quite understand how a a couple of judges have suddenly concluded that college football should be treated as a business. College football IS a business--but it's not in any way a conventional business. Businesses are private enterprises; most universities are public entities and state institutions---big difference. Simply put, they're schools, first and foremost, even as they must operate in many ways like businesses. Much of the football money is used to subsidize 15 or 20 other sports that lose money--and won't EVER make money. What conventional business pours money into activities that will always lose money? Nobody. The only people getting rich off the current system are the coaches--who are grotesquely overpaid, and the massive buyouts are a complete joke--and network executives. Nobody else is. College football may resemble pro football now--but it's far different. Pro football is a private enterprise: the clubs are private. The players are employees. College football players are full-time students, first and foremost. The players don't make the game of football--the schools do. There is only college football because the schools have invested in everything needed to have a program--including scholarships for the players.

I read yesterday that the Univ. of Arizona's athletic department has serious financial problems and may have to cut sports. I'm guessing that the Univ. of Arizona is not going to be eager--at this time, anyway--to start paying players with money it doesn't have. Don't many/most major-college athletic departments lose money--even as they're making a lot of money from TV-rights deals? Or is that not true? The athletic departments spend huge sums of money. It's going to be very interesting to see how colleges react to this NCAA proposal to establish a division of schools willing to share revenues with players---which is going to cost a LOT of money and likely negatively impact other sports. You think there's been a problem with players not paying much attention to classses and academics in the past? Wait 'till you start giving them thousands of dollars while in college. Good luck managing that.

The problem with college football, as it is with pro sports, is greed. There's no real leadership. Nobody is willing to say, "enough. ""We don't need more games, we don't need a longer season, we don't need another playoff expansion." Because the networks start waving more money in front of them, and they capitulate--and the university presidents are just as bad as the athletic directors.
 
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#283
#283
Lawrence Wright said:
Beacuse fans are entitled and can‘t handle losing any perceived lack of control they never really had.

And if some of these fans are honest, they don’t like the idea of 19 year-old kids taking part in that thing called capitalism…for a variety of
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Lawrence Wright said:
Translation:
It’s going to destroy your enjoyment of college football.

The game itself will be just fine, with or without you.
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Yeah Walmart doing just fine financially even though Sam would role over in his grave at the Customer service……
 
#284
#284
fossilfiction said:
It's unconstitutional to deny people the right to make money off their NIL, period. Just because they are in college doesn't mean they shouldn't off their NIL.

You can make money off your NIL, except for your lack of skills to do so. That's the only difference between you and them.
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Do you think they make a little more than their actual NIL value? Who’s keeping the books?
 
#286
#286
turbovol said:
The problem with college football, as it is with pro sports, is greed. There's no real leadership. Nobody is willing to say, "enough. ""We don't need more games, we don't need a longer season, we don't need another playoff expansion." Because the networks start waving more money in front of them, and they capitulate--and the university presidents are just as bad as the athletic directors.
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It's also the media and most fans that are clamoring for more, more, more, and the networks see that and are responding. The BCS wasn't enough, and then the CPF wasn't enough, and soon the 12-team playoff won't be enough.

One of many things that chased me away from pro sports was the mercenary aspect of players, and the fans whose lust to "win" demanded more money spent on payroll, resulting in games that have become unaffordable for the average working person and a product which continues to deteriorate. We are at that point with CFB, or damn close to it.

This whole mess goes way beyond whether it's 'right' or 'fair' to be paying college athletes. The powers that be in college athletics and the schools have allowed their greed and lust for more, more, more to destroy something incredibly special, and if it isn't slowed down, which is about like stopping an avalanche at this point, it will end up ruining first the "non-revenue" sports before football and basketball programs become unionized defacto 'minor leagues' for the pros, using the school logos and stadiums.
 
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#287
#287
Kylo said:
Cry more. The schools and administrations have lined their pockets with billions for years and you complain about the players FINALLY seeing some of that....

Laughable
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How can the schools be "lining their pockets with billions" when only a handful of programs operate in the black to begin with? And when I say in the black, I mean very, very thin margins of profit, although the top schools can hope to break 10-15 million when they're at the top of the competitive mountain.

If we examine the expenses, revenue, and income for SEC schools, we can see that almost all the revenue is spent on department operations. One could even come to the crazy conclusion that the schools spend just about everything they make on maintaining or improving the scope and quality of athletics support for students at their school. It's almost as if they're on a mission to offer a wide-ranging set of athletic opportunities to as many student-athletes as they can afford. Wow. What a crazy idea.

SEC_spending.png

So where, again, are these excess billions they're lining their pockets with?
 
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#289
#289
Voltopia said:
How can the schools be "lining their pockets with billions" when only a handful of programs operate in the black to begin with? And when I say in the black, I mean very, very thin margins of profit, although the top schools can hope to break 10-15 million when they're at the top of the competitive mountain.

If we examine the expenses, revenue, and income for SEC schools, we can see that almost all the revenue is spent on department operations. One could even come to the crazy conclusion that the schools spend just about everything they make on maintaining or improving the scope and quality of athletics support for students at their school. It's almost as if they're on a mission to offer a wide-ranging set of athletic opportunities to as many student-athletes as they can afford. Wow. What a crazy idea.

View attachment 610291

So where, again, are these excess billions they're lining their pockets with?
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The ones lining their pockets are primarily the network execs, conference commissioners, school administrators, and the big time AD's and coaches. It's always been that way, but in the last 30 years it has grown to ridiculous proportions. Everything that is happening was a completely predictable result when you think about it.
 
#290
#290
Mccage said:
Do you think they make a little more than their actual NIL value? Who’s keeping the books?
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There is no such thing as "actual NIL value." If an athlete or anyone can get paid to be in an ad or sign something or whatever, they simply can.

Some, like the Manning family, are EXTREMELY aggressive about marketing their NIL. Even Archie who hasn't played in 40 years is making commercials.

Trying to say anyone is "making too much" from NIL is ridiculous.
 
#292
#292
Voltopia said:
How can the schools be "lining their pockets with billions" when only a handful of programs operate in the black to begin with? And when I say in the black, I mean very, very thin margins of profit, although the top schools can hope to break 10-15 million when they're at the top of the competitive mountain.

If we examine the expenses, revenue, and income for SEC schools, we can see that almost all the revenue is spent on department operations. One could even come to the crazy conclusion that the schools spend just about everything they make on maintaining or improving the scope and quality of athletics support for students at their school. It's almost as if they're on a mission to offer a wide-ranging set of athletic opportunities to as many student-athletes as they can afford. Wow. What a crazy idea.

View attachment 610291

So where, again, are these excess billions they're lining their pockets with?
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all that money goes to all the non-revenue sports. sports that would have been net negatives to the university if they couldn't redirect money from the revenue making sports.
 
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#293
#293
Voltopia said:
How can the schools be "lining their pockets with billions" when only a handful of programs operate in the black to begin with? And when I say in the black, I mean very, very thin margins of profit, although the top schools can hope to break 10-15 million when they're at the top of the competitive mountain.

If we examine the expenses, revenue, and income for SEC schools, we can see that almost all the revenue is spent on department operations. One could even come to the crazy conclusion that the schools spend just about everything they make on maintaining or improving the scope and quality of athletics support for students at their school. It's almost as if they're on a mission to offer a wide-ranging set of athletic opportunities to as many student-athletes as they can afford. Wow. What a crazy idea.

View attachment 610291

So where, again, are these excess billions they're lining their pockets with?
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It's like anything else that people do when they see big money. They automatically believe that since X is making the big bucks that errybody is. There might be a handful that are making big bank, but as you illustrate, the vast majority aren't. I wonder how many mid level programs are going to either die outright or languish in mediocrity/obscurity going forward. And the 'pin action' will be how many secondary programs will die because football and basketball are the money makers that support all of them. I dunno. I certainly expect the "VFL" to be a pretty rare bird anymore, and it's pretty hard to get as emotional as I used to about 'senior day'. Whoever can buy the best mercenaries will be the one to beat.
 
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#294
#294
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
There is no such thing as "actual NIL value." If an athlete or anyone can get paid to be in an ad or sign something or whatever, they simply can.

Some, like the Manning family, are EXTREMELY aggressive about marketing their NIL. Even Archie who hasn't played in 40 years is making commercials.

Trying to say anyone is "making too much" from NIL is ridiculous.
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Their being paid by a collective right? The mannings have an Agent how many of our players have Agents? If it’s true that Nico got 8 million who wrote the check? To say the NIL isn’t part smoke screen for buying players is ridiculous.
 
#295
#295
Mccage said:
Their being paid by a collective right? The mannings have an Agent how many of our players have Agents? If it’s true that Nico got 8 million who wrote the check? To say the NIL isn’t part smoke screen for buying players is ridiculous.
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Spyre or Volunteer Club. I don't think that is any big secret
 
#297
#297
VolsSportsFan said:
Lol...yes, tout that $200K plus food and lodging....nevermind coaches, conferences, TV and schools are making millions and billions.
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Should NFL players make more because owners are making hundreds of millions to billions

What about front line workers in factories and blue collar jobs. Instead of 20-30 an hour should they make hundreds of thousands to millions since top dogs at that company make that.

I’m fine with players getting paid even though they have it better than 99.99% of kids coming out of HS but using the argument they deserve more because their bosses and the ones who run the organization make a lot more is asinine
 
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#298
#298
PickleRickBarnes said:
Should NFL players make more because owners are making hundreds of millions to billions

What about front line workers in factories and blue collar jobs. Instead of 20-30 an hour should they make hundreds of thousands to millions since top dogs at that company make that.

I’m fine with players getting paid even though they have it better than 99.99% of kids coming out of HS but using the argument they deserve more because their bosses and the ones who run the organization make a lot more is asinine
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Let them see what they make without them.
 
#299
#299
Mccage said:
Their being paid by a collective right? The mannings have an Agent how many of our players have Agents? If it’s true that Nico got 8 million who wrote the check? To say the NIL isn’t part smoke screen for buying players is ridiculous.
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Of course the players are being paid to play and paid to come to schools. That's been going on for many, many decades now.

That you can see it now legally and that the market has driven the salaries up is also obvious. The fans were 100% fine with paying players when it was illegal because it bought better teams for those that used it extensively. It still does.

I don't understand all the drama about paying players now. We've been doing it for a very long time or UT would be approximately as successful as Vandy.

Why complain now?
 
#300
#300
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Of course the players are being paid to play and paid to come to schools. That's been going on for many, many decades now.

That you can see it now legally and that the market has driven the salaries up is also obvious. The fans were 100% fine with paying players when it was illegal because it bought better teams for those that used it extensively. It still does.

I don't understand all the drama about paying players now. We've been doing it for a very long time or UT would be approximately as successful as Vandy.

Why complain now?
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I’m not complaining glad for them. Im saying checks are being written that the NIL alone can’t cover.
 
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