Historians rank top Presidents on Leadership

#126
#126
In my mind Lincoln was the greatest President we have ever had. He got the country through the darkest times it has ever seen. He also freed an entire race of people from bondage.

He had his shortfalls no doubt. Every man does, but he truly was one of the greatest Americans to ever live.

Without Lincoln we wouldnt be the greatest counry in the world today. Hell without Lincoln we wouldnt even be a country today.
 
#127
#127
volsincebirth said:
You should read the book. " The real Lincoln"
It tells about how he shelled New York with the Navy and put every single (Including Northern) journalist in prison for disagreeing with him.
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You might be surprised to learn that I have read it.
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#128
#128
thagodfather said:
president reagan gets the credit for bringing the hostages home. he said free the hostages before i'm sworn in as president or i will come and get them. they were freed.
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I think you're crediting the wrong person. From what I know, they released the hostages at 12:01 PM on January 20, 1981. Carter is the one who deserves credit there, not Reagan.
 
#129
#129
nickknx865 said:
I think you're crediting the wrong person. From what I know, they released the hostages at 12:01 PM on January 20, 1981. Carter is the one who deserves credit there, not Reagan.
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:lolabove::eek:lol::lolabove::eek:lol:

From what you know? Obviously, that is nothing about the situation.

The Iranians laughed and thumbed their nose at Carter for 444 days. Reagan warned them, and they KNEW he wasn't joking, nor making idle threats.

Carter was there to meet the hostages when they returned. One hostage remarked to the media. "I don't think a single one us cared that he was there."
 
#130
#130
From Wikipedia

The ordeal reached a climax when after failed attempts to negotiate a release, the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in an aborted mission, the crash of two aircraft and the deaths of eight American military men and one Iranian civilian. The crisis ended with the signing of the Algiers Accords in Algeria on January 19, 1981. The hostages were formally released into United States custody the following day, just minutes after the new American president Ronald Reagan was sworn in.
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#131
#131
nickknx865 said:
From Wikipedia
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The hostages were formally released into United States custody the following day, just minutes after the new American president Ronald Reagan was sworn in.
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Thank you. You finally get the point. The Iranians treated Carter as a joke (he was/still is). The closer it came to Reagan taking office, the more urgency the Iranians had in reaching an agreement.

Do you remember the hostage crisis? I do.

Do you remember the anger in this nation aimed at Iran? I do.

Do you remember the anger aimed at Carter, for his embarrassing and inept handling of the situation? I do.

Do you remember the absolute elation in this country, when the news broke into regular programming (coverage of the inauguration)? "The airplane carrying the Iranian Hostages has left Iranian airspace, The plane has been intercepted, and is being escorted by American F-14 Tomcats." I do.

Do you remember staying up all night, to watch their return? Waiting for that plane to land in Algiers. Watching them take off again, and waiting for them to land in Wiesbaden, Germany? I do.

Do you remember former hostage, Richard Queen, released early for medical reasons? Mr. Queen was on the news that night. He was identifying each hostage by name, as they stepped off the plane. Do you remember Barry Rosen's wife tearfully interrupting Queen when one hostage stepped of the plane? Telling him, "I'll introduce this one. That's Barry Rosen." I do.

Now, tell us again what you've HEARD about the crisis. Those of us who lived it will tell you what we KNOW.
 
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#132
#132
gsvol said:
I very much disagree with FDR being in the top half, he was a terrible president if you look at the big picture!

Five worst presidents in American history if you take it by guarding the best interests of the citizens, by rank.

1) Thomas Woodrow Wilson
2) Franklin Delano Roosevelt
3) James Earl Carter
4) William Jefferson Clinton
5) Lyndon Baines Johnson

(there may be some 19th century sleazebags but they would have to be pretty bad to be lower that those listed above.)
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Wow all democrats. Didnt see that one coming. :birgits_giggle:
 
#134
#134
thagodfather said:
president reagan gets the credit for bringing the hostages home. he said free the hostages before i'm sworn in as president or i will come and get them. they were freed.
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That is complete BS. This is what really happened:
The death of the Shah on July 27 and the invasion of Iran by Iraq in September 1980 may have made Iran more receptive to the idea of resolving the hostage crisis. Ronald Reagan defeated Jimmy Carter in the November 1980 presidential election but Carter continued to attempt to negotiate the release of the hostages through Secretary of State Warren Christopher, Algerian intermediaries and members of the Iranian government in the final days of his presidency.

In the waning days of Carter's Presidency, Algerian diplomat Abdulkarim Ghuraib opened fruitful negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. This resulted in the "Algiers Accords"[56] of January 19, 1981. The Algiers Accords called for Iran's immediate freeing of the hostages, the unfreezing of $7.9 billion of Iranian assets and immunity from lawsuits Iran might have faced in America, and a pledge by the United States that "it is and from now on will be the policy of the United States not to intervene, directly or indirectly, politically or militarily, in Iran's internal affairs."

On January 20, 1981, minutes after Reagan was sworn in as President, the American hostages were released by Iran into U.S. custody, having spent 444 days in captivity. The hostages were flown to Algeria as a symbolic gesture for the help of that government in resolving the crisis. The flight continued to Rhein-Main Air Base in West Germany, where former President Carter, acting as emissary, received them.
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Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#135
#135
nickknx865 said:
I think you're crediting the wrong person. From what I know, they released the hostages at 12:01 PM on January 20, 1981. Carter is the one who deserves credit there, not Reagan.
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yes they did, but only because president reagan warned them that if they didn't by this time he would come to get them. read my original post again, it says as much. it was reagan that got the hostages freed with this warning.
 
#136
#136
#137
#137
nickknx865 said:
I think you're crediting the wrong person. From what I know, they released the hostages at 12:01 PM on January 20, 1981. Carter is the one who deserves credit there, not Reagan.
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Carter is the one responsible for the hostages being taken in the first place.

Carter's support of the radical maxist mullahs and help in toppling the government of the Shah are pitiful.

Carter did this on the claim of human rights issues but the government of the Mullahs put to death more people in Iran, sometimes on the flimsiest of excuses in one year than the government of the Shah had been accused of in thirty years!!

Carter and agents of the USSR help destroy one of the most modern countries in the mideast and one of America's best allies.

Carter gave the Shah impossible to meet demands including an extortion request for campaign contributions and a 50 years oil contract at $8 a barrel that would be crazy to think the Shah would sign among other financial favors for Carter's political friends.

Carter also demanded a huge contract to construct an Iranian port at 10% above the Shah's existing contract to be paid to Carter's friends as a 'management fee.'

Carter wanted the mullahs in power in Iran for some insane reason and has an "Aytollah Khomeini room" in his Carter Center in Atlanta.

Carter was the sorriest individual to ever grace the steps of the White House.

Carter touched nothing that he hasn't screwed up ever. By comparison his brother Billy is an absolute genius.

Carter shut down US satellite monitoring of Cuba and by now de-classified (1977 or 78) presidential order to the special intel forces to give the Castro regime all the names, locations, and movements of the Cuban expatriates who were fighting for Cuba's and Cubans' freedom. The order was listed on Castro's web site for a year before it was removed because of too much embarrassment to the traitor Carter and caused the death of many fine men. Hundreds of AMERICAN Citizens were sent to their death or into the depths of Castro's dungeons thanks to Carter. Several were shot down and murdered where many more on boats that were sunk and died drowning.

Carter is a treasonous traitor to the American people and the cause of freedom in the world.

Cater should be an embarrassment, even to the most liberal among us.

Carter is considered by many mainstream Americans who lean to the right as an inept bumbling idiot, this isn't true, he is a very shrewd wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
#138
#138
thagodfather said:
carter receiving them shows the class that reagan had. he knew how hard carter had worked to get the hostages free so he allowed carpenter carter to receive them. i don't have to look up wikipedia, i not only read the book about the hostage crisis but lived through it also.
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Reagan wasn't in office he was being inaugurated. His first day in office was the day after they were released. He wasn't in postion to stop Carter if he had wanted to.

I lived through it too, and I know Reagan had not been in office one day when they were released. It just shows your complete bias because Reagan was a Republican.
 
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#139
#139
volger said:
Wow all democrats. Didnt see that one coming. :birgits_giggle:
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I don't have the faintest clue as to why you would be surprised the five worst would be democrats. :unsure:

You must not follow politics much.

6) Nixon
(but he will be knocked down a notch by Obambi who will probably be able to make the top three in only four years.)
 
#140
#140
oklavol said:
Reagan wasn't in office he was being inaugurated. His first day in office was the day after they were released. He wasn't in postion to stop Carter if he had wanted to.

I lived through it too, and I know Reagan had not been in office one day when they were released. It just shows your complete bias because Reagan was a Republican.
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That's ludicrous. You act as if he hadn't been elected nearly 3 months prior.
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#141
#141
nickknx865 said:
From Wikipedia
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Wiccanpeter is a sophomoric source at the very best, occasionally it can be completely wrong.

For instance who wrote the material you quoted from that site, is there an author whose credentials can be established???

On the whole it is only marginally better that snopes.
 
#142
#142
BigPapaVol said:
That's ludicrous. You act as if he hadn't been elected nearly 3 months prior.
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gsvol said:
Wiccanpeter is a sophomoric source at the very best, occasionally it can be completely wrong.

For instance who wrote the material you quoted from that site, is there an author whose credentials can be established???

On the whole it is only marginally better that snopes.
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What do you guys expect? He voted for Obama. That should tell you all you need to know.
 
#143
#143
oklavol said:
Reagan wasn't in office he was being inaugurated. His first day in office was the day after they were released. He wasn't in postion to stop Carter if he had wanted to.

I lived through it too, and I know Reagan had not been in office one day when they were released. It just shows your complete bias because Reagan was a Republican.
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did i not say that reagan warned that the hostages better be released before his inauguration? what happened? they were released the day of the inauguration. reagan was responsible for the release. how hard is that to understand?
 
#145
#145
thagodfather said:
did i not say that reagan warned that the hostages better be released before his inauguration? what happened? they were released the day of the inauguration. reagan was responsible for the release. how hard is that to understand?
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you said Reagan gets credit for the hostages being released. Which is impossible, he hadn't taken office yet.

Stranger yet, that Iran would fear Reagan, when apparently they had a great relationship. Reagan was illegally selling them arms to finance the Contras years later.
 
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#146
#146
SavageOrangeJug said:
What do you guys expect? He voted for Obama. That should tell you all you need to know.
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1) I didn't vote for Obama

2) there were 76 footnotes at the end of that article in Wikipedia giving its sources. Do I have to copy and paste every one of them to get you to notice them?

3) Encylopeida Britanica has the same information. I suppose you want us to believe they made up their information too? http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/272687/Iran-hostage-crisis

By May 1980 the United States had convinced its closest allies to institute an economic embargo against Iran. However, the embargo alone was not enough to weaken Iranian resolve; nor, for that matter, did the shah’s death on July 27 break the dilemma. Two subsequent events, however, made a resolution of the crisis seem more likely. First, in mid-August Iran finally installed a new government, and the Carter administration immediately sought to extend diplomatic overtures. Second, on September 22 Iraq invaded Iran. Although the subsequent Iran-Iraq War (1980–88) distracted Iranian officials from hostage negotiations in the short term, the embargo continued to wear away at the Iranian economy and the country’s ability to stave off Iraqi forces. Likewise, when Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Ali Rajaʾi visited the UN in October, numerous world leaders made it clear to him that Iran could not expect support in the Iraq conflict as long as it held the U.S. hostages.
As a consequence, Iranian officials engaged in negotiations with renewed vigour. Rajaʾi insisted that there be no direct negotiations, however, and Algerian diplomats acted as middlemen throughout the remainder of the process. Negotiations continued throughout late 1980 and early 1981, during which time the Iranian demands centred largely on releasing frozen Iranian assets and lifting the trade embargo. An agreement having been made, the hostages were released on January 20, 1981, minutes after the inauguration of the new U.S. president, Ronald W. Reagan.
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You complain about Wikipedia, but I notice none of your conclusions are supported with anything.
 
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#147
#147
BigPapaVol said:
That's ludicrous. You act as if he hadn't been elected nearly 3 months prior.
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Giving a President who hadn't even taken office yet credit for negotiating the release of hostages is more ludicrous.
 
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#148
#148
gsvol said:
I very much disagree with FDR being in the top half, he was a terrible president if you look at the big picture!

Five worst presidents in American history if you take it by guarding the best interests of the citizens, by rank.

1) Thomas Woodrow Wilson
2) Franklin Delano Roosevelt
3) James Earl Carter
4) William Jefferson Clinton
5) Lyndon Baines Johnson

(there may be some 19th century sleazebags but they would have to be pretty bad to be lower that those listed above.)
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Anyone who puts one of the Top 5 presidents of all time as his 2nd worst is someone not worth listening to.
 
#149
#149
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#150
#150
nickknx865 said:
Anyone who puts one of the Top 5 presidents of all time as his 2nd worst is someone not worth listening to.
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That's a matter of opinion, you have yours, I have mine.

In my opinion FDR was one of the worst of American presidents and I can produce plenty reasons why.

As I have said before; 'when you only look at one side of the coin, you will never know heads from tails.'

Our current POTUS seems t think he will be the next FDR, but if you look at the historical record, FDR was a complete failure before WWII.
 
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