Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

[NCFisher]

No, the answer just doesnt fit your narrative so you are avoiding it.

Nonsense. You thought that was a "Got eeem now!" when it was just a nonsensical question. To reprise:

615vols said:
Manning folded under pressure while brady didnt? The highest pressure game possible head to head between these two was the afc championship, let me know mannings record against brady there and try to reconcile it to your statement.

Me: QBs don't go "head to head", they face opposing defenses. Brady has successfully done that in big games far more often than Manning.

It isn't as though Manning tags in and launches a flying elbow from the top turn-buckle into poor, cowering Brady, beating him into submission. Good grief, their records in big games speak for themselves.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Fact is well never know. What we do know is that the Patriots are amazing, and Brady has been there all the while.

But two things...his QBR yesterday was worse than Manning’s when everyone chalked that game up to the Denver D.

Second, the best way to scientifically prove something is a controlled and blinded study to remove all other variables except the one being studied. I think this is the main point of the Manning apologists (of which I am one). Brady and the Patriots have reaped the rewards of low variability and consistency. Manning was never that fortunate.

I am a ravens fan. I remember the 2011 afc championship when Brady threw 3 picks and for 50 yards and his qbr was close to zero. Yet once again the pats team found a way to get to the sb. Don’t believe those stats. Feel free to look them up. I can’t think of a single qb having a playoff performance that awful and still make it to the Sb. The guy has had a ton of help.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

We only have Brady @ NE, and Manning at Indy and Denver to go on. It is what it is.

Coaching and the rest of the team matters tremendously.

 

[615vols]

Nonsense. You thought that was a "Got eeem now!" when it was just a nonsensical question. To reprise:

615vols said:
Manning folded under pressure while brady didnt? The highest pressure game possible head to head between these two was the afc championship, let me know mannings record against brady there and try to reconcile it to your statement.

Me: QBs don't go "head to head", they face opposing defenses. Brady has successfully done that in big games far more often than Manning.

It isn't as though Manning tags in and launches a flying elbow from the top turn-buckle into poor, cowering Brady, beating him into submission. Good grief, their records in big games speak for themselves.

You are contradicting yourself though. You said manning folds in big games and brady doesnt. The biggest game these two players teams could play against each other is the afc title game. But you just dont have a response for this except playing dumb about a literal head to head.

Also, using your own logic, qbs also dont win games. Teams do. Its not like brady jumps off the top ropes to beat the rams into submission, right. Cant have it both ways there.

 

[Boston Vol]

I am a ravens fan. I remember the 2011 afc championship when Brady threw 3 picks and for 50 yards and his qbr was close to zero. Yet once again the pats team found a way to get to the sb. Don’t believe those stats. Feel free to look them up. I can’t think of a single qb having a playoff performance that awful and still make it to the Sb. The guy has had a ton of help.

He threw for 239 yards and two picks. QBR was 57, not remotely close to zero.

 

[NCFisher]

Coaching and the rest of the team matters tremendously.

Sure. And while Manning had better offenses, Brady had better defenses. Now what?

And some point you have to put aside conjecture and look at what is. Gun to my wife's head on the outcome, I'm picking Brady in post-season

 

[615vols]

Coaching and the rest of the team matters tremendously.

Agreed. And peyton had 5 different head coaches, reaching a super bowl with 4 different head coaches and winning with 2.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

He threw for 239 yards and two picks. QBR was 57, not remotely close to zero.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

He threw for 239 yards and two picks. QBR was 57, not remotely close to zero.

He threw 3 picks I believe in the 2009 game against the ravens. Got them mixed up.

 

[NCFisher]

You are contradicting yourself though. You said manning folds in big games and brady doesnt. The biggest game these two players teams could play against each other is the afc title game. But you just dont have a response for this except playing dumb about a literal head to head.

Also, using your own logic, qbs also dont win games. Teams do. Its not like brady jumps off the top ropes to beat the rams into submission, right. Cant have it both ways there.

Must we get downright dopey? The thread is comparing Manning and Brady and their capacity for championship play. There's no implication that folding means losing games, but rather the frequency with which they're lost.

We're all...ALL...aware of team sport concept. And likewise aware that every team's success rides unquestionably on the back of the QB.

Especially one who's 9 for 6 rings.

 

[Boston Vol]

I am a ravens fan. I remember the 2011 afc championship when Brady threw 3 picks and for 50 yards and his qbr was close to zero. Yet once again the pats team found a way to get to the sb. Don’t believe those stats. Feel free to look them up. I can’t think of a single qb having a playoff performance that awful and still make it to the Sb. The guy has had a ton of help.

And since you’re a ravens fan, do you think it matters that both Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, arguably the two greatest at their positions in nfl history, who both spent most of their careers playing against Manning and Brady, both say Brady is the goat? I mean it’s just an opinion, but some opinions carry more weight than others.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

And since you’re a ravens fan, do you think it matters that both Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, arguably the two greatest at their positions in nfl history, who both spent most of their careers playing against Manning and Brady, both say Brady is the goat? I mean it’s just an opinion, but some opinions carry more weight than others.

Never heard that.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

You don't understand the difference between All-Pro and those who get invitation to the Pro Bowl.

The All-Pro title is the for the best position player for the year. Four-six QBs get invited to the Pro Bowl.

There's only one (1) All Pro QB every year.

Except in 2018, there were two.

In 2014, 2015 and 2017, there were three.

Didn't feel like going back any further.

Source: a cursory glance at Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[NCFisher]

He threw for 239 yards and two picks. QBR was 57, not remotely close to zero.

Mere details...barely a whisker's difference between that and "3 picks and for 50 yards and his qbr was close to zero."

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Maybe Brady is a better athlete that I thought. I just looked at his career stats and he has punted twice. One for 32 yards and one for 36 yards. I know he can’t run or catch but those outs weren’t bad. I was surprised.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Maybe Brady is a better athlete that I thought. I just looked at his career stats and he has punted twice. One for 32 yards and one for 36 yards. I know he can’t run or catch but those outs weren’t bad. I was surprised.

Spell check. Meant those punts weren’t bad.

 

[615vols]

Must we get downright dopey? The thread is comparing Manning and Brady and their capacity for championship play. There's no implication that folding means losing games, but rather the frequency with which they're lost.

We're all...ALL...aware of team sport concept. And likewise aware that every team's success rides unquestionably on the back of the QB.

Especially one who's 9 for 6 rings.

Every teams success rides on the qb? So the ravens super bowl year rode on trent dilfer? Thats your argument? A teams success is a team accomplishment. And brady has had the benefit of one of the greatest head coaches of all time and a masterfully ran organization. Peyton has taken 4 different head coaches to the super bowl, which to me is a testament to his greatness. He could get there with anybody. Could brady? Who knows, wish we couldve seen him try though.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Fact is well never know. What we do know is that the Patriots are amazing, and Brady has been there all the while.

But two things...his QBR yesterday was worse than Manning’s when everyone chalked that game up to the Denver D.

Second, the best way to scientifically prove something is a controlled and blinded study to remove all other variables except the one being studied. I think this is the main point of the Manning apologists (of which I am one). Brady and the Patriots have reaped the rewards of low variability and consistency. Manning was never that fortunate.

Peyton threw for 141 yards, zero TDs and 1 INT in that Super Bowl, and was sacked five times. Whereas Brady threw for 262 yards, zero TDs and 1 INT and was sacked one time yesterday - by a vastly better defense than what Manning played against. Never has there been a better example of how silly and meaningless QBR is than your example. QBR is entirely fabricated and based on opinion, unlike actual stats such as yards and sacks that are objective; comparing the two is like comparing postseason wins to MVP awards - one is objective and inarguable, while the other is 100% subjective, and therefore completely worthless in evaluating the greatness, or lack thereof, of a player. Any Vol fan who claims voted-on awards mean anything has to then acknowledge that Charles Woodson deserved to win the Heisman over Manning (which is ludicrous).

 

[tennbjj]

Never heard that.

Ray Ray: https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...y-the-greatest-quarterback-of-all-time-013117

Ed: 'Inside the NFL': G.O.A.T: Brady or Manning?

Just letting you all read for yourself. Montana is still my guy personally, but:
Many great players are calling Tom Brady the best ever
Aikman, Tarkenton, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Darelle Revis, Hines Ward, Barry Sanders, Kurt Warner, Theisman. Just to name a few all say Tom

Oh, AND Reggie Wayne, who basically played his entire career with Peyton:
One of Peyton Manning's best receivers concedes that Tom Brady is best QB ever

 

[volfannbama]

Brady doesn’t have the skillset to go to a very bad team and carry them on his back and make that team a quick playoff contender. Bad teams don’t allow you 5 seconds to throw short passes all day long and they usually don’t have a defense that shuts the other team down. If I own a bad team I’m going to want a qb that has the physical skills like Marino, Rogers, Elway or a qb that is an on field offensive coordinator like manning.

Bad teams are usually not lead by great quarterbacks either.

Oh and bradys average release time is usually around 2.5 seconds, but stick to the 5 seconds, facts mau hinder your argument.

 

[lifeisdeep]

As I already posted, Brady's receivers in 2011 were as follows: Wes Welker, 32-year-old Deion Branch, 34-year-old Chad Johnson, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez; his RBs were Benjarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. Show me one other quarterback in the modern era, Manning or anyone else, who has made it to the Super Bowl, or for that matter a conference championship, with less for weapons. You can't because it has never happened.

Eli Manning's receivers for that game were Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, Victor Cruz and Jake Ballard; his RBs were Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs. What do you think Brady would have done if he had ever had receivers the caliber of Nicks, Manningham, and Cruz all in the same season, with two backs as good as Bradshaw and Jacobs?

 

[615vols]

A norv turner quote from an article ranking qbs : "If Peyton Manning had New England's defenses, he would be at the top of this list and he would be 5-2 or 6-1 in Super Bowls."

Imo both are up there, not sure who id say is better. The circumstances were too dramatically different for each.

 

[NCFisher]

Every teams success rides on the qb? So the ravens super bowl year rode on trent dilfer? Thats your argument? A teams success is a team accomplishment. And brady has had the benefit of one of the greatest head coaches of all time and a masterfully ran organization. Peyton has taken 4 different head coaches to the super bowl, which to me is a testament to his greatness. He could get there with anybody. Could brady? Who knows, wish we couldve seen him try though.

You're right. A punter is as critical to a team's success as the QB, which is why punters get paid like QBs.

You're going to compare a lightning in a bottle season in which the SB-winning QB was not good enough to resign, with a HOFamer that's done it six times? Ooooookay.

Peyton's great; love him. But he's 500ish post-season. Brady is 750ish. I don't bet with my heart.

 

[615vols]

As I already posted, Brady's receivers in 2011 were as follows: Wes Welker, 32-year-old Deion Branch, 34-year-old Chad Johnson, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez; his RBs were Benjarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. Show me one other quarterback in the modern era, Manning or anyone else, who has made it to the Super Bowl, or for that matter a conference championship, with less for weapons. You can't because it has never happened.

Eli Manning's receivers for that game were Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, Victor Cruz and Jake Ballard; his RBs were Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs. What do you think Brady would have done if he had ever had receivers the caliber of Nicks, Manningham, and Cruz all in the same season, with two backs as good as Bradshaw and Jacobs?

Well i mean in 07 he had 8 ap all pros on his team, 2 being wrs randy moss and wes welker. He lost the super bowl.

 

[615vols]

You're right. A punter is as critical to a team's success as the QB, which is why punters get paid like QBs.

You're going to compare a lightning in a bottle season in which the SB-winning QB was not good enough to resign, with a HOFamer that's done it six times? Ooooookay.

Peyton's great; love him. But he's 500ish post-season. Brady is 750ish. I don't bet with my heart.

Speaking to you is like speaking to a child. Where did i say a punter is as valuable to a team as a qb? Reading comprehension much?