The Thread Where We Debate About Healthcare in America

#154
#154
In reality, there are only two “options.” Fee for service (self pay) or something else. The something else means adding a middle man to the “transaction.” Whoever that middle man is comes at a cost to the system as a whole. It doesn’t matter if the middle man is the government with an ever expanding beaurocracy that will also need to be paid for, or if the middle man is some fat cat insurance stakeholder who is trying to maximize profits by denying services.

Either way, adding a third party between physician and patient will add costs. Who those costs are distributed to depends on who’s buddies are in power in DC.
 
#155
#155
newyorkvol said:
In reality, there are only two “options.” Fee for service (self pay) or something else. The something else means adding a middle man to the “transaction.” Whoever that middle man is comes at a cost to the system as a whole. It doesn’t matter if the middle man is the government with an ever expanding beaurocracy that will also need to be paid for, or if the middle man is some fat cat insurance stakeholder who is trying to maximize profits by denying services.

Either way, adding a third party between physician and patient will add costs. Who those costs are distributed to depends on who’s buddies are in power in DC.
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The days of true fee for service are gone, never to return. You're correct about the middle man. In the let's call it co-op model, the middle man would likely be a nonprofit controlled by a board consisting of patient members. There wouldn't be ridiculous CEO salaries or massive government bureaucratic waste. It would be a lean system with any profit returned to the members as a refund that would be scaled based on utilization. Healthier members would see more back than sicker members. Would incentivize members to live healthier lifestyles. Of course, there are always accidents and misfortunes, but the coverage would still be there.

So, that's my idealistic system. Can't imagine big insurance would allow it to happen, unfortunately.
 
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#156
#156
USMC-TNVOL said:
Yet those models are higher level than state level in Europe yet they consistently rank higher than us. Wheres your proof that state level is so much better? State level means states will have varying requirement for education which is absolutely stupid and the same for healthcare.

It must be difficult for you to understand.
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I am afraid you are confused with who doesn’t seem to understand. You are the goofball arguing for more government control which leads to more waste

U.S. now ranks near the bottom among 35 industrialized nations in math - The Hechinger Report

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings - CBS News

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows - CBS News
 
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#158
#158
#159
#159
I'll just set this here for you all to munch on...

Big Pharma & The Rise Of Gangster Capitalism | Zero Hedge

Thanks to decades of gangster films, we all know how gangster capitalism works: the cost of "protection" goes up whenever the gangster wants to increase revenues, any competition is snuffed out, and "customer demand" is jacked up by any means available-- addiction, for example.

This perfectly describes the pharmaceutical industry and every other cartel in America. You might have read about the price increase in Acthar gel, a medication to treat Infantile Spasms. (via J.F., M.D., who alerted me to the repricing of this medication from $40 in 2001 to the current price of $38,892.)

The compound first received approval in 1950, and various branded versions have been approved in recent years. Let's be clear: this medication did not require billions of dollars in research and development, or decades of testing to obtain FDA approval; it's been approved for use for the past 68 years.

Yes, you read that correctly: a medication that's been in use for 68 years went from $40 a dose in 2001 to $38,892 today. Don't you love the pricing? Not a round 38 grand, but $38,892. You gotta love these gangsters!

There's another related term to describe this form of capitalism: racketeering.That's what mobsters do--operate rackets.

The Big Pharma racket enriches a number of gangs practicing gangster capitalism: the drug companies themselves, of course, but some doctors are profiting from the racket, and so are pharmaceutical lobbyists.
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#162
#162
Sandman 423 said:
I like you because you think that 200K doesn't make you rich.
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I'm his take guessing that by the time he pays malpractice insurance (Thanks to all the resident lawyers) his take home isn't nearly all that much. I know at least 2 doctors in the local area that 'retired' after the Obolacare cram down. fwiw.
 
#166
#166
landscapingvol said:
I am afraid you are confused with who doesn’t seem to understand. You are the goofball arguing for more government control which leads to more waste

U.S. now ranks near the bottom among 35 industrialized nations in math - The Hechinger Report

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings - CBS News

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows - CBS News
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And you're the twat that won't look at how other nations do it well at the national level. It's called reinventing the wheel. If it works in a comparable country, we should look instead of trying things piecemeal (Affordable Care Act).
 
#167
#167
USMC-TNVOL said:
And you're the twat that won't look at how other nations do it well at the national level. It's called reinventing the wheel. If it works in a comparable country, we should look instead of trying things piecemeal (Affordable Care Act).
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Which countries are comparable?
 
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#168
#168
USMC-TNVOL said:
And you're the twat that won't look at how other nations do it well at the national level. It's called reinventing the wheel. If it works in a comparable country, we should look instead of trying things piecemeal (Affordable Care Act).
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The Only countries socialized medicine has worked in, temporarily key word, like Norway Sweden etc...at 60% of their income in taxes if middle class...and are homogenous, well educated, not obese populations...and their massive government is still beginning to fail under its own weight...these are small countries with populations not like ours at all. Government run single payer healthcare will never work in our country where 25% of the population is obese...and it's getting worse. Your views of big government knowing what's better for us than we do show your immaturity, naivety, and lack of real world experience. Our government isn't good at anything that they do...and private companies not bound by all the red tape can always do things cheaper and better. See also the new thread from freak about name calling...
 
#169
#169
Mick said:
Health care and insurance costs were out of control way before Obama and still are but now that Obama tried to do something good without the help of the GOP and GOP states the GOP and idiots that live in the GOP states are wanting to blame him for a problem that was there before he was even president. We were unable to progress to affordable healthcare because of idiots wanting to blame someone and nothing else. What has the GOP done to address the problem?
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Wow yet another misinformed, brain dead post. Government controlled healthcare is not a good thing. Creating a healthcare tax is nit a good thing.

Given how badly the VA and medicare is, please explain why the healthcare system should be run and controlled by the government.
 
#170
#170
marcusluvsvols said:
The Only countries socialized medicine has worked in, temporarily key word, like Norway Sweden etc...at 60% of their income in taxes if middle class...and are homogenous, well educated, not obese populations...and their massive government is still beginning to fail under its own weight...these are small countries with populations not like ours at all. Government run single payer healthcare will never work in our country where 25% of the population is obese...and it's getting worse. Your views of big government knowing what's better for us than we do show your immaturity, naivety, and lack of real world experience. Our government isn't good at anything that they do...and private companies not bound by all the red tape can always do things cheaper and better. See also the new thread from freak about name calling...
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Socialized medicine works well in countries with small populations and low instances of illegal immigration.
 
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#171
#171
USMC-TNVOL said:
And you're the twat that won't look at how other nations do it well at the national level. It's called reinventing the wheel. If it works in a comparable country, we should look instead of trying things piecemeal (Affordable Care Act).
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I am sorry I don’t want to risk my wife or my children’s health because you got a warm and tingly feeling during one of your unimportant college courses. You still have a lot to learn
 
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#172
#172
SpaceCoastVol said:
I'm his take guessing that by the time he pays malpractice insurance (Thanks to all the resident lawyers) his take home isn't nearly all that much. I know at least 2 doctors in the local area that 'retired' after the Obolacare cram down. fwiw.
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They either wanted to hang it up or they didn't have very good practices. I know a crap ton of doctors in my line of work and they all seem to be doing very well.
 
#173
#173
ClearwaterVol said:
They either wanted to hang it up or they didn't have very good practices. I know a crap ton of doctors in my line of work and they all seem to be doing very well.
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There seems to be no middle of the road. They either make a ton or not very much. It’s the family practice guys who are struggling. On the contrary the ER guys are killing it.
 
#174
#174
landscapingvol said:
I am sorry I don’t want to risk my wife or my children’s health because you got a warm and tingly feeling during one of your unimportant college courses. You still have a lot to learn
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Risk their health how? By being covered?

I don't want my children to be left out to dry later in life because you fear "big government." This article shows how people get screwed over because of a crappy healthcare system.

Wall Street Journal Profiles Women With Lupus To Highlight Difficulties in U.S. Health System | Kaiser Health News

I had a view of no government healthcare before taking courses and actually learned from these courses. Stick to landscaping because you won't accept any views except your own.
 
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#175
#175
USMC-TNVOL said:
Risk their health how? By being covered?

I don't want my children to be left out to dry later in life because you fear "big government." This article shows how people get screwed over because of a crappy healthcare system.

Wall Street Journal Profiles Women With Lupus To Highlight Difficulties in U.S. Health System | Kaiser Health News

I had a view of no government healthcare before taking courses and actually learned from these courses. Stick to landscaping because you won't accept any views except your own.
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Do we do ourselves and our descendants a favor by keeping people alive by treating incurable diseases/genetic defects allowing them to pass that disease to the next generation?
 
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