Chancellor Angela Merkel wins a 4th term.

#28
#28
Burhead said:
Oh I've studied it but do you honestly think that Austria-Hungary would have started the Serbian campaign, knowing it would draw them into a war with the allies, if they knew they didn't have the backing of Germany? I highly doubt it to be honest. Even if they did I don't think it would have reached the scale it did without the involvement of Germany. So yeah, Germany does have some blame for the start of WWI.
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Its hard to say, Austria-Hungary was not the most robust empire and had a lot of ethnic groups, they couldn't afford to let someone kill their crown price without reprisal. Who knows though, without Germany's backing maybe their ultimatum to Serbia would have been lighter and actually something they could work with.

That said, Serbia had Russia backing it and Austria-Hungary had Germany backing it. Neither side would have likely been as confident without their big buddy in their corner.

There is plenty of blame for WWI though, and Germany had its own very large helping of that blame. Just not all of it.
 
#30
#30
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait... all of Europe had intermingling alliances at that time. That was how it was able to escalate so rapidly in a short amount of time.

WWI is far more complicated than you are wanting to make it out. All of Europe was basically a stick of dynamite waiting for a match.
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Serbia was allied with Russia. Russia has always viewed themselves protectors of the Balkan Slavs. So when the Austrians retaliated, Russia felt obligated to mobilize. Germany felt obligated to mobilize on their ally Austria's behalf and because Russia was mobilizing. France was allied with Russia and started mobilizing. Once the mobilization of armies started, no one wanted to get caught with their pants down so it snowballed.

Can't really blame any one country (except perhaps Austria-Hungary) without blaming them all.

Simplified version. It's a fascinating subject to study but gets overshadowed by WW2.
 
#31
#31
Godfatha said:
Serbia was allied with Russia. Russia has always viewed themselves protectors of the Balkan Slavs. So when the Austrians retaliated, Russia felt obligated to mobilize. Germany felt obligated to mobilize on their ally Austria's behalf and because Russia was mobilizing. France was allied with Russia and started mobilizing. Once the mobilization of armies started, no one wanted to get caught with their pants down so it snowballed.

Can't really blame any one country (except perhaps Austria-Hungary) without blaming them all.

Simplified version. It's a fascinating subject to study but gets overshadowed by WW2.
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Train schedules played an important role also.
 
#32
#32
hog88 said:
Train schedules played an important role also.
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True enough.

Germany feared a two front war as well, so they were hoping to knock out one front quickly so they could focus on the other.

Dan Carlin did a really good podcast on WWI called Blueprint for Armageddon.
 
#33
#33
Godfatha said:
True enough.

Germany feared a two front war as well, so they were hoping to knock out one front quickly so they could focus on the other.

Dan Carlin did a really good podcast on WWI called Blueprint for Armageddon.
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I have to chime in favorably for this podcast. Also there was a really good WWI documentary series I watched on Hulu but I can't remember it's name.
 
#37
#37
DinkinFlicka said:
Probably roughly a smidge better than Le Pen would have worked out minus the xenophobic validation.
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I have been surprised at how he is governing. Just passed a significant reform to the French labor laws against much resistance and protest from the people. I do wish he would be tougher on illegal migration but I guess you gotta start somewhere.
 
#39
#39
Burhead said:
Oh I've studied it but do you honestly think that Austria-Hungary would have started the Serbian campaign, knowing it would draw them into a war with the allies, if they knew they didn't have the backing of Germany? I highly doubt it to be honest. Even if they did I don't think it would have reached the scale it did without the involvement of Germany. So yeah, Germany does have some blame for the start of WWI.
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The same argument could be made with regards to the Russians supporting the Serbs.

Again, the interwoven alliances made this a powder keg waiting to blow.
 
#42
#42
DinkinFlicka said:
Probably roughly a smidge better than Le Pen would have worked out minus the xenophobic validation.
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this is the issue, people everywhere are buying the same crap that the other side is so much worse. and yet we get strikingly similar results.
 
#43
#43
LouderVol said:
this is the issue, people everywhere are buying the same crap that the other side is so much worse. and yet we get strikingly similar results.
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Indeed. From a numbers sense, things wouldn't be much better if HRC had won.

I do think from a stance of cultural importance, there's a huge difference. It ends there, though.
 
#44
#44
DinkinFlicka said:
Indeed. From a numbers sense, things wouldn't be much better if HRC had won.

I do think from a stance of cultural importance, there's a huge difference. It ends there, though.
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what cultural shifts are the fault of trump? The race issues began before him
 
#47
#47
DinkinFlicka said:
His victory represents a validation of mass xenophobia.
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lol. maybe equal parts that and Hilary sucking worse than the bottom of a septic tank. most of it was the letter next to his name on the ballot.

what everyone needs to face is partisan voting got us here and will keep us here. both sides.
 
#48
#48
Madscientistvol said:
In your opinion, is nativism intrinsically xenophobic?
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In a general sense (especially in the Western world), yes. This is a world in which multiculturalism is on the up and up.

In the sense of America, this isn't the right question. This country was taken and colonized. It wasn't founded.
 
#49
#49
LouderVol said:
lol. maybe equal parts that and Hilary sucking worse than the bottom of a septic tank. most of it was the letter next to his name on the ballot.

what everyone needs to face is partisan voting got us here and will keep us here. both sides.
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I've always said that. Hillary is terrible. They're both extremely out of touch. They care nothing for 99% of the country. They're both narcissists. They're both surrounded by corporate pickpockets. They're both in it to divide people.

Still not an unhinged xenophobe starting **** on twitter.
 
#50
#50
DinkinFlicka said:
I've always said that. Hillary is terrible. They're both extremely out of touch. They care nothing for 99% of the country. They're both narcissists. They're both surrounded by corporate pickpockets. They're both in it to divide people.

Still not an unhinged xenophobe starting **** on twitter.
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no just a pseudo socialist trying to start WWIII with Russia.
 
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