SEC Expansion (merged)

#1

Burhead

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#1
Say a school like Texas agrees to join the league, would they immediately be included the the conference or have to wait like a year or two? I'm not really knowledge on the whole expansion issue so excuse my ignorance.
 
#2
#2
God we love to throw around texas coming here don't we :)

I'm curious too, i'd like to know this. I wonder if it would relate to when during the year expansion was agreed upon
 
#3
#3
God we love to throw around texas coming here don't we :)

I'm curious too, i'd like to know this. I wonder if it would relate to when during the year expansion was agreed upon

Well I just threw Texas out there because that's what I've been reading a lot on here and on the web.
 
#4
#4
Well I just threw Texas out there because that's what I've been reading a lot on here and on the web.

lol, yeah but it's mainly cause they're one of the biggest cash cows (and alot also think about expansion as adding good teams, not the financial issue that it really is)

Texas really said no to the big ten very quickly (which makes the most money out of the conferences....by quite a bit actually) it seemed to suggest they didn't plan on going anywhere anytime soon
 
#5
#5
If Texas wont leave the B10 twith the BTN $$ they won't join a much tougher SEC
 
#6
#6
If Texas wont leave the B10 twith the BTN $$ they won't join a much tougher SEC

agreed. not sure why you want them other than money. i mean if thats the case why dont we offer noter dame? if we really have to expand and keep this a southeast thing, then why not florida state and miami? i know the whole"SEC already owns the florida market" argument but its keeping it in the southeast.
 
#7
#7
This is going to happen. The SEC is going to add at least 2 teams by this time next year. (Invites anyway)
 
#8
#8
lol, yeah but it's mainly cause they're one of the biggest cash cows (and alot also think about expansion as adding good teams, not the financial issue that it really is)
Texas is by far THE biggest cash cow in the college landscape, and they are not joining the SEC.

After posting, discussing and pondering it, my guess is that the Big XII South stays relatively in tact and adds teams while most of the North Division is absorbed into the Pac-10 and Big Ten.
 
#9
#9
Texas is by far THE biggest cash cow in the college landscape, and they are not joining the SEC.

After posting, discussing and pondering it, my guess is that the Big XII South stays relatively in tact and adds teams while most of the North Division is absorbed into the Pac-10 and Big Ten.

who would the Big 12 add?? Houston? TCU? Rice? SMU?

If the PAC10 expands its going after Colorado, Utah, BYU, UNLV/Colorado St.

That means your big 12 looks like:
Texas
Texas Agricultural and Manufacturing
Baylor
TCU
Rice
Houston
SMU
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Iowa St.
plus maybe Boise St.

I don't think there is anyway Texas would prefer that conference lineup to the SEC.

There just isn't anyway the Big 12 could compete with the expansion of the Pac10, BigTen, SEC, ACC

16 team league hypo:

BigTen:

Penn St.
Ohio St.
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Michigan
Michigan St.
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
*Missouri
*Rutgers
*Nebraska
*Notre Dame
*Pitt

SEC:

LSU
Arky
Ole Miss
Miss St.
Bama
Auburn
Kentucky
Vandy
Tennessee
Georgia
South Carolina
Florida
*Texas
*Texas A&M
*Oklahoma
*Florida State

ACC:

BC
Maryland
VT
UVA
UNC
Duke
Wake
NC State
Clemson
GT
Miami
*WVU
*Louisville
*South Florida
*UConn
*Syracuse

Pac 10:

Udub
Wash St.
Oregon
Oregon St.
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona St.
*Colorado
*Utah
*BYU
*UNLV
*Colorado St.
*Hawaii

New Big 12 (14):

baylor
houston
smu
rice
utep
tcu
tulsa
oklahoma st.
iowa st.
kansas
kansas st.
new mexico
Boise st.
wyoming

Conf. USA:

Memphis
Tulane
So. Miss
UCF
East Carolina
Marshall
La. Tech
Troy
FAU
FIU
Ark. St.
Middle Tennessee


**That was fun:crazy:
 
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#10
#10
Who else will the Big XII add? They can't poach teams from the SEC. I'm sure Texas and Oklahoma would prefer to stay. The conference doesn't make as much money, but UT and OU get the lion's share of the money and would continue to make as much, if not more, than they would in the SEC.

As I said, UT and OU would prefer to stay the centerpiece of their own conference rather than become just another face in a "super-SEC" type conference.

Also, bring traveling into the mix -- say they do poach a handful of area C-USA teams. You've got mostly major media market teams coming in (TCU/SMU in DFW, Rice/Houston in Houston, Tulsa is decent-sized), some of whom already have respectable football programs, and a major conference that's contained within two states. I'd bet you that some combination of Houston, TCU and SMU could turn into quality programs within a decade if they're in a major conference -- they've been there before. And in terms of talent, just as California already single-handedly provides enough talent to make the entire Pac-10 good at football, Texas does the same for its own major conference.

And moving to the Pac-10, I will give you a bit of insight on the conference. It differs greatly from the rest of the major football conferences in many ways:
- The conference still very much prefers to only include high academic level universities. The ones that aren't (OSU, WSU, ASU) happen to be among the best research universities in the country in a pretty wide area of subjects.
- There is definitely a status quo for "moral views" among all the current Pac-10 members. Specifically, I'm quite certain most of if not all the current schools would object to the inclusion of BYU over grave differences in viewpoints with the LDS church. This may also affect Utah, even though it's a public university.
- Overall athletic competitiveness. When leaving football out of the picture, the Pac-10 is highly competitive if not dominant in nearly all of the NCAA sports. Importantly this also includes women's sports.
- Big market (a LOT of WSU students/alums are from Seattle). The conference basically consists of five principal markets, being Seattle, Portland/Eugene, SF Bay Area, Los Angeles and Phoenix/central AZ. All are top-20 TV markets.
Generally the Pac-10 still has its nose in the air regarding the quality of its members, their athletic programs and general outlook. Colorado is the only school in the western US that fits the Pac-10 mold that isn't already in the conference. The LDS pretty much ruins BYU's chance of inclusion, and Utah, UNLV, CSU and Hawaii are substantially lesser schools than the current members. If I HAD to pick a 12th team to even out the conference, then it would probably Utah for the Salt Lake market, but that's a stretch.

Bottom line, strange as it is, is that in spite of the Pac-10 being one of the best 3-4 football conferences year in and year out, they simply don't care that much about football, at least not in the way other conferences do. I see Colorado working out since it only has upsides, as it meets all the criteria I just posted. But the conference probably goes after them only because the Big XII north's entire existence is in jeopardy.
 
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#11
#11
I really dont want the SEC to expand but if they did. I guess off the top of my head hare are teams that I wouldnt mind seeing.

The U and FSU - I like them better than texas/texas am scenario.
Texas and Tex AM.
UNC and DOOK
Va Tech and Virginia
MTSU and La Monroe
 
#12
#12
I agree with you to an extent, Milo, but I think their hand may be forced (even if the Pac10 would prefer to stay as it is), if the BigTen, SEC, and ACC expand, it seems like they would have to as well just to stay relevant.

I'm sure there are plenty in the BigTen that don't want to add Missouri (who is academically lesser than traditional BigTen teams), but its not going to stop them.
 
#13
#13
Back to the OP, I assume it would be at least a year off, maybe more. I don't see how they could redo the schedule commitments in a shorter time frame.

Who remembers how it worked in 1992? I don't.
 
#14
#14
I agree with you to an extent, Milo, but I think their hand may be forced (even if the Pac10 would prefer to stay as it is), if the BigTen, SEC, and ACC expand, it seems like they would have to as well just to stay relevant.

I'm sure there are plenty in the BigTen that don't want to add Missouri (who is academically lesser than traditional BigTen teams), but its not going to stop them.
Even adding two teams the Pac-10 would still be good enough and carry enough tradition to be included in the group of "elite conferences" though it would put them at the bottom of the totem pole. haha

Plus the Big Ten and Pac-10 will want to maintain some semblance of connection through the Rose Bowl at least. Having the champs from each conference is a high priority for each.
 
#15
#15
There is no reason for the Big 12 to add the likes of Houston, Tulsa, Rice, that would add little competition and are already in solid Big 12 markets. I would look to Memphis, Tulane, Arizona, and Arizona St because they would push the Big 12 into Memphis, New Orleans, and Phoenix.
 
#16
#16
Memphis is the only one I might buy. Tulane is a cadaver of an athletics program that happens to be in a large market, and I can pretty much guarantee you that UA and ASU are staying put in the Pac-10 instead of joining a league as bottom/middle of the totem pole on team payout with Oklahoma and Texas around.
 
#17
#17
Memphis is the only one I might buy. Tulane is a cadaver of an athletics program that happens to be in a large market, and I can pretty much guarantee you that UA and ASU are staying put in the Pac-10 instead of joining a league as bottom/middle of the totem pole on team payout with Oklahoma and Texas around.

I agree with you on Tulane, but I just don't see any other major markets that are within Big 12's reach. Maybe Salt Lake with BYU or Utah.
 
#18
#18
I agree with you on Tulane, but I just don't see any other major markets that are within Big 12's reach. Maybe Salt Lake with BYU or Utah.

TCU in Fort Worth. Though, I'd imagine that since Dallas is such a huge city that most people that have moved there have kept their allegiance or picked up UT or OU.

Also, I don't see TCU leaving the Mountain West.
 
#20
#20
TCU in Fort Worth. Though, I'd imagine that since Dallas is such a huge city that most people that have moved there have kept their allegiance or picked up UT or OU.

Also, I don't see TCU leaving the Mountain West.

I think the only thing TCU has in its favor is that the football team is riding high right now. It would probably water down the yearly distributions because they really don't add anything as far as the market is concerned.
 
#21
#21
You don't think they'd join a major conference if given the opportunity?

Honestly, no. The Big-12 has little profit sharing, correct?

They stand to make BCS bowls out of the MWC and have a good thing going with BYU. If they go to the Big-12 they'll go the way of Baylor.

Honestly, SMU seems like it'd be a good fit in the MWC as well. Vandy should go to C-USA to fill that spot and SEC-E picks up GaTech. That's just what I'd like to see.
 
#23
#23
Rivals/Yahoo guy apparently reporting that Vandy is among the teams the Big 10 is considering. Why they would want Vandy is beyond me, but I hope they take them. That would give us room for three expansion spots in the SEC if we were to expand to 14 teams...

I'd bet that if we do expand, West Virginia is certainly one of the three. Their coach has even publicly mentioned his desire to join the SEC, so you know their AD and President have to be lobbying for it. And they bring a lot to the table with a large, passionate fan base that travels, an excellent football team (all time winningest program to not have a national championship, I think 11th or 12th in all time wins), and of course they'd immediately improve SEC basketball. They also open us up to exposure in the northeast, with the Pittsburgh and DC media markets.

Who the other team would be is beyond me... Chris Fowler has apparently stated that the SEC has met with FSU, Miami, WVU, and GT... I wouldn't mind having FSU, but I'm not excited about Miami or GT.
 
#24
#24
Rivals/Yahoo guy apparently reporting that Vandy is among the teams the Big 10 is considering. Why they would want Vandy is beyond me, but I hope they take them. That would give us room for three expansion spots in the SEC if we were to expand to 14 teams...

I'd bet that if we do expand, West Virginia is certainly one of the three. Their coach has even publicly mentioned his desire to join the SEC, so you know their AD and President have to be lobbying for it. And they bring a lot to the table with a large, passionate fan base that travels, an excellent football team (all time winningest program to not have a national championship, I think 11th or 12th in all time wins), and of course they'd immediately improve SEC basketball. They also open us up to exposure in the northeast, with the Pittsburgh and DC media markets.

Who the other team would be is beyond me... Chris Fowler has apparently stated that the SEC has met with FSU, Miami, WVU, and GT... I wouldn't mind having FSU, but I'm not excited about Miami or GT.

I don't see Vandy leaving the SEC. They would have to be making a lot more $ to leave, especially when you consider the amount of traveling involved.

FSU seems the best fit to me for the SEC, but if you're just looking at $, it wouldn't expand the SEC's market much except for furthering the SEC's dominance in the state of Florida.
 
#25
#25
I don't see Vandy leaving the SEC. They would have to be making a lot more $ to leave, especially when you consider the amount of traveling involved.

FSU seems the best fit to me for the SEC, but if you're just looking at $, it wouldn't expand the SEC's market much except for furthering the SEC's dominance in the state of Florida.

Big 10 money is as good as SEC money, and Vanderbilt might actually be competitive. Vanderbilt would also likely enjoy the academic benefits of the Big 10. If Vandy were offered, they'd go...

The real question is why would the Big 10 even consider adding Vandy? Only real thing they add is some mild exposure for the Big 10 in the southeast. I hope they go for it though.
 

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